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RE: IN-Borden man bitten by venomous viper snake
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by AquaHerp on January 21, 2009
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Indeed they are Karl.
I had lasting circulation problems in my arm after the horridus bite. I wasn't worried too much about dying (although the primary doctor tells me I should have been a bit more concerned), but when I heard the doctor and Sherman Minton talking about "well, I think we can save the arm" it really hit home! Anyone who thinks an envenomation is "cool" or a stroll in the park is in serious trouble.
DH
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RE: IN-Borden man bitten by venomous viper snake
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by tigers9 on January 21, 2009
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karl Buzztail1 wrote:Nobody seems to understand that just living through the envenomation is not the end of the story. Some bites have life-changing results>>
Karl, the same goes for car and other accidents, some have life long lasting effects.Lsot limbs, quadraplegics, etc...
Z
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RE: IN-Borden man bitten by venomous viper snake
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by Cro on January 21, 2009
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What many people do not realize is that the damage that venoms do BEFORE antivenom is administered is not reversed after the antivenom is given.
All the antivenom will do is neutralize the ramaining venom, and keep it from doing further damage.
Damage done before antivenom must rely on the healing process of the body to repair the damage.
Even with antivenom, there are some components in some venoms, that are not neutralized by the antivenom at all.
Some neurotoxic components in venoms of snakes like Kraits can bind to presynaptic neuromuscular receptors, and cause depletion of acetylcholine. This damage cannot be reversed with antivenom.
Someone who survives a bite like this is likely to have permanant damage to the neural system for years after.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: IN-Borden man bitten by venomous viper snake
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by LarryDFishel on January 21, 2009
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"The real damage became apparent a week or two later as I developed..."
I'm certainly not an expert in this category, but what kind of neurotoxin takes effect "a week or two later"?
It sounds like a neurological problem, but Jeff's point is that doesn't necessarily mean it was caused by a neurotoxin.
Autoimmune problem caused by all that horse serum? Seems more like the right time frame for that.
Just my uneducated thoughts...
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RE: IN-Borden man bitten by venomous viper snake
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by FLherp on January 22, 2009
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There is no implication that any bite is a walk in the park, nor that there are not lasting consequences to any bite. It does not even suggest that there is no intraspecific or intrageneric variation in venom composition - that variation is well-documented in some species and is due to numerous factors - geographical, ontological, diet, time of last meal, etc. It is merely the suggestion that the intuitive leap from bitten by venomous snake to subsequent deficit are directly related - particularly with the delay noted - ain't necessarily so. As I said before, it may merit further investigation as not only is there variation in the snakes venopm, but in each person bitten. The outcome of these events is dependent on numerous factors, not all of which are known or can be accounted for. Two things happening in a narrow time frame does not support the assumption that one caused the other, that the events are even corelated, there is a great deal of randomness that affects events in our lives, but we insist on identifying patterns even where none exist.
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RE: IN-Borden man bitten by venomous viper snake
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by FSB on January 24, 2009
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I realize that the press is by nature, and economics, condemned to wallow in the ignorance of the lowest-common denominator, and is obliged to acquiesce to such ignorance rather than attempt to do anything to dispel it, but it still irks me to see these hyper-stupid redundancies like "viper snake" or "copperhead snake." At least this guy used the term "venomous" instead of "poisonous."
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RE: IN-Borden man bitten by venomous viper snake
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by Buzztail1 on January 24, 2009
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FSB - I think it is not really a matter of ignorance in this particular case but rather just one of unfamiliarity.
For instance, the paper probably doesn't publish very many articles about snakes to begin with. And very many of the snakes in the US have the word "snake" in their common name. Yellow Rat Snake, Eastern King Snake, Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake, etc are just a few examples. So, if you are not familiar with snakes and are actually trying to write a fair and balanced article, it would not be difficult to say to yourself, out loud, "Copperhead" or "viper" and think that it sounds short and not all there. I am sure that they added "snake" to both those words, read it out loud and thought "Yep, that sounds right."
At least it wasn't a Cottonmouth!
Then it could have wound up being:
Cottonmouth Moccasin Snake
Water Moccasin Snake
Cottonmouth Viper
Cottonmouth Snake
Water Moccasin
Cottonmouth
and probably lots more I can't even come up with.
I will say that reading snake articles has given me a whole new outlook on news. We recognize the issues with snake articles. I am sure that there are hobbyists in every single walk of life that see the very same things in articles about their passions.
So, how much of the news that we see and read every day is actually accurate?
R/
Karl
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RE: IN-Borden man bitten by venomous viper snake
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by tigers9 on January 24, 2009
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maybe many of you who are snake experts need to start contacting reporters and correct them so they can learn, some might be very receptive to your education, not all reporters/editors are idiots:)
Z
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RE: IN-Borden man bitten by venomous viper snake
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by Cro on January 24, 2009
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"maybe many of you who are snake experts need to start contacting reporters and correct them so they can learn, some might be very receptive to your education, not all reporters/editors are idiots"
Zuzana, the wee bit of cynicism that you detect is because most of us Have contacted reporters time and time again, and we have tried to educate them, and the reporters have still not gotten things right, time and time again.
You are right that all reporters / editors are not idiots, only the great majority of them.......
Best Regards
John Z
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