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DSE seizes illegal corn snakes from home of Sunbur
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by tigers9 on April 29, 2009
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This is from Australia, but this crazy scenario could be happening in the USA should HR669 pass,
Z
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25403926-2862,00.html
DSE seizes illegal corn snakes from home of Sunbury man
AAP
April 29, 2009 01:48pm
TWO illegal corn snakes have been seized from the home of a Sunbury man.
The 23-year-old Sunbury man has a licence to keep reptiles, but it is illegal to keep, breed or trade corn snakes.
Department of Sustainability and Environment (DSE) officers executed a search warrant on the man's home last night after a tip-off and found a male and a female snake.
DSE senior investigator Keith Larner said the man was expected to be charged on summons.
He faces fines of up to $24,000.
"While we haven't ascertained that any breeding has gone on here, it's always our worst fear when we find exotic snakes," Mr Larner said.
"Corn snakes are prolific breeders and they pose a real threat to our native snake populations, both through disease and competition for prey if they are released into the wild."
The man found keeping the snakes had "every reason" to fear losing his reptile licence.
"Keeping native reptiles is a privilege, not a right."
DSE has seized about 80 corn snakes over the past eight years, and it is believed there are many more being held illegally.
Corn snakes are native to the corn fields of North America.
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RE: DSE seizes illegal corn snakes from home of Su
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by Rob_Carmichael on April 30, 2009
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Who would have thought that a benign little corn snake would cause such a stir in another country!....$24K fine...wow. I actually found the last sentence amusing that "Corns snakes are found in corn fields in North America"....better get my bags and head to farm country!
Hey, if it's the law, then its the law - the dude should not have broken the law and I think that's a lesson to be learned for the folks here who keep venomous snakes illegally in their towns in the US. It just makes us all look bad. Z is probably saying that hey, if Australia can take that kind of stand against corn snakes/exotics, imagine what will happen in the U.S. if they ban large constrictors, etc. There's a long battle ahead.
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RE: DSE seizes illegal corn snakes from home of Su
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by tigers9 on April 30, 2009
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Thats right Rob, I am NOT asking people to break stupid laws, I am saying we need to stop stupid laws from ever happening. And when did corn snakes move from swamps to corn fields? Is is greener there?;-)
Z
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RE: DSE seizes illegal corn snakes from home of Su
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by Buzztail1 on April 30, 2009
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Speaking up for the other side on this one.
Australia has had a horrible history with imported invasives including rabbits, camels, and cane toads.
The Brown Tree Snake which is a plague upon every island which it manages to get to is at home on Australia where it is a native.
Corn Snakes, which are incredibly prolific, probably would be horribly damaging to the already embattled Australian ecosystem.
So, they made it illegal to import and own them.
Kind of like we did with the Brown Tree Snake.
Has anyone recently looked up the possible fines etc for getting caught with a Brown Tree Snake within the boundaries of the United States?
I remember hearing a few years back that the fine was something like $50,000 but that may be incorrect.
Either way, the argument against the bill in question should be that they need to do the studies to prove that the wildlife in question is, in fact, injurious. I believe that Australia has done that while the US has not.
Just my views on the comparison between the laws in the two countries in question.
R/
Karl
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RE: DSE seizes illegal corn snakes from home of Su
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by tigers9 on April 30, 2009
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yes Karl, u just said in one LONG paragraph what I /woman already said in oen sentence: prevent bad and stupid laws from happening based on AR hysteria.
Z
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RE: DSE seizes illegal corn snakes from home of Su
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by tigers9 on April 30, 2009
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and not fair to compare venomous brown snake with harmless corn snake, not the sdme public safety issues while on the job trying to eradicte the potential agri pests. WHY blame/punsih whole USA for Guam's inability to deal with one type of snake???? They know what the problem is, they IDed the snake and can't eradicate it how will HR669 fix it????
idiots
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RE: DSE seizes illegal corn snakes from home of Su
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by Buzztail1 on April 30, 2009
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1. The Corn Snake is harmless in its native habitat. In a situation where it is not native, it may very well outcompete/outbreed/wipe out native fauna.
2. The Brown Tree Snake is rear fanged and is considered harmless in its native range - Australia. It is not a deadly venomous snake.
3. Public safety issues? Eradicate the potential agri pests? I have no idea what you are talking about.
4. "WHY blame/punsih whole USA for Guam's inability to deal with one type of snake???? They know what the problem is, they IDed the snake and can't eradicate it how will HR669 fix it????
idiots" - What are you talking about? - I never said Guam at all. Hawaii spends a tremendous amount of money every year attempting to keep Brown Tree Snakes from gaining entrance to their islands. Even so, have you ever been to Guam? They will never be able to eradicate the snakes that are there. People cannot physically get to where they are. Not possible.
I think that your passion to negate everything that AR stands for blinds you to some very real problems. I do not support the bill as there was no study done to determine exactly what animals are actually injurious. That doesn't mean that some animals don't need or deserve some kind of oversight for ownership.
The well-intentioned people who honestly thought that HR669 was a good idea (not the AR folks pushing an agenda) were not trying to fix the already existing problems. They were trying to prevent further ones. The AR people count on this to get their bills passed. Calling these people idiots will not win them to your side.
Saying that you don't believe pythons are breeding in the Everglades doesn't stop them from being found, in increasing numbers, each and every day.
On any given day, you can search for reptiles in the greater Miami area and not come close to finding as many natives as you do invasives. There are even several breeding populations of monkeys in Florida now. Saying that this is not a problem is just as unrealistic as calling someone a pet parent or calling fish sea kittens.
The article on the law enforcement in Australia, while interesting, has nothing to do with HR669. It is a different country with different laws which are passed in an entirely different way than ours. Pointing at them and saying "That could be us if ..." is as ridiculous as saying "If we let this happen, the Queen might be the titular head of our country." After all, isn't she the monarch of Australia?
The guy broke the law.
He knew he was breaking the law.
He got caught.
The article writer knew nothing about the foreign snakes he was writing about (gosh - that never happens here).
I honestly fail to see the sky is falling on this one.
R/
Karl
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RE: DSE seizes illegal corn snakes from home of Su
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by pictigaster1 on April 30, 2009
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Karl there is a large population of japanese snow macacque in texas as well that have caused quite a few problems so it is a fact some exotics do establish populations.This pop of monkeys has a high rate of hep c.It is a health problem.
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RE: DSE seizes illegal corn snakes from home of Su
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by tigers9 on May 1, 2009
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Karl, I never said Burmese pythons were not a local problem, but they r not a nationwide problem. It is localized in no freeze line issue. And as I asked in different thread on this forum, did anybody ever witness Burmese sex in Everglades? That was my question, not a factual statement.
Regarding corn snakes in Australia, yes, it is a bigger issue there since they don’t have top mammal predators, like we have in the USA. In my community feral cats are NOT an issue, since native bobcats and cougars take care of them. Still interesting to read the Queensalnd CORN SNAKES WANTED AS CRMININALS report that claims they
<<In its native region, the American corn snake lives in dry fields>>
http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/documents/Biosecurity_EnvironmentalPests/IPA-Corn-Snake-Warning.pdf
When in reality they prefer 50 % and up humidity, NOT dry by my standards. Plus, their native US habitat seems to be the more humid Eastern states.
As for the Brown snake, what I wrote/referenced was taken out of Pimentel’s report, the one HR 669 supporters use as a source of 130 plus billion dollar cost of invasive species control. Pimentel claims Brown snake eats captive food birds eggs and birds (aka agri issues) and that kids end up in hospital as a result of Brown snake bite, (aka public safety issue):
http://www.rexano.org/Federal_Canada/PimentelEtal00CostExotics.pdf
(page 5)
Snip
The brown tree snake
eats chickens, eggs, and caged birds, causing major problems
to small farmers and pet owners
<snip>
In addition, the brown tree snake is
slightly venomous and has caused public health problems,
especially when it has bitten children. At one hospital
emergency room on Guam, approximately 26 people per
year are treated for snake bites (OTA 1993). Some bitten
infants require hospitalization and intensive care, at an
estimated total cost of $25,000 per year (Thomas Fritts, US
Geological Survey, personal communication).
Snip
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RE: DSE seizes illegal corn snakes from home of Su
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by tigers9 on May 1, 2009
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PS: Karl, no need to get personal and attack, you are a civilian now, and I am a woman (do not atatck) ;-)
And NO, I never visited Guam, I visited Hawaiian islands many tiems.
Z
Karl wrote: << think that your passion to negate everything that AR stands for blinds you to some very real problems. >>
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