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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by AquaHerp on June 14, 2009
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Okay then. What is your idea?
Certainly not releasing more and radio tracking. That can be deemed "flawed" as well. Any wildlife study has its variables that have to be taken into account.
Why does everything have to be a conspiracy?
DH
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by tigers9 on June 14, 2009
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AquaHerp, I hope the conspiracy theory was not directed at me:) I simply don’t like how the study is done, but to answer your questions why, here are few reasons:
1. They are releasing only small amount of males and releasing them now in late spring, meaning, he snakes will be able to slowly gradually adjust to winter months.
2. The study is only one year long, and if this winter is warm, the snakes might make it thus giving false results
3. The study should be more than one year long and snakes should be released in different intervals, meaning, some should be dumped out in the cold in the middle of the winter. Are the ‘bad’ pet owners only releasing pet snakes in June???
4. If the enclosure really is snake proof, they should have males and females to observe the chance of copulation and egg survival and hatching.
5. Site should be in colder part of SC, if as some said here, the picked site is the warmest area of SC.
6. Not sure if I missed it, would be nice to know how big the habitat is.
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by AquaHerp on June 14, 2009
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No Z,
That was not directed at you.
I do realize the variables in it. However, there must be a launching point for a study such as this.
Now, common sense tells us that these snakes will not invade the country. I don't see a python hanging out at the bottom of the slide awaiting small children down at my local park.
There is a reason that these snakes in their natural realm are found in a specific range, and only that range. Climactic boundaries prevent it.
DH
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by pictigaster1 on June 14, 2009
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Agama international has proved many tropical and sub tropical lizards can survive very cold winters.They hand picked animals on the fringe or from high altitudes.There are burm populations on these fringes with in there home range.I have no idea what is the point of this study .I believe survival is best tested at the extreme limits of the range.S.C.is just far enough south that survival is almost a given.There are many states where these snakes could survive in the south.As could many other species.I lost a mangrove when I lived at home with my parents .Two years later after my divorce my dad called and said come get your damn snake off my electric box in the back of the house.He said the damn thing was black and yellow.I thought he had found a splendida .When I got there he had a four foot fat mangrove in the bag.When he was lost he had been chewed up by a mouse so I was sure it crawled off and died.While on the lamb it grew 2 feet and healed well but was still scared for life.It survived two winters .I do not know how long it was in the back yard tho.
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by AquaHerp on June 14, 2009
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Again, it's the framework for a "range of tolerance" study. It has to start somewhere to begin collecting the data. It's then plugged into an "environmental gradient" formula/graph to measure different ranges for levels to maintain critical functions, levels to maintain the organism on up to levels to maintain a population". But these have to start somewhere.
Are we saying that we should not test any of these (regardless of where) and just wing it and hope that the public will be okay with "well, my personal opinion is....." That's how we got into the whole burm invasion fiasco to begin with.
I have been in the conservation/research mode for my entire career and am surrounded daily by a myriad of research projects. Some great, some...eh. This is how we garner knowledge, valuable knowledge. I do believe that we need to have a baseline jumping off point to start getting data to plug into the models. I think there is much more danger to simply not doing anything and suppressing these studies. Look at Peta, they thrive on opinion and conjecture, fear tactics and so on. They absolutely cannot stand up to scientific facts. So, what's the issue with gaining this data?
This is the last I will debate this one. It's come down to a matter of opinions.
DH
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by Adamanteus70 on June 14, 2009
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If a study needs to be done in order to test a "theory", then it should involve male and female snakes. After all the study is to determine if the Burmese python can reproduce and thrive in SC is it not?
Okay, well then there needs to be a full circuit of life involved here. Feeding rabbits and rats is a method I am sure they have come to in order to make sure the snakes obtain food. However, why not use native prey such as squirrels, raccoons, opposums, duck, quail, etc., all animals native in the environment of wild SC. These animals are released into the enclosure and if the pythons get a meal so be it, just like in the wild. As far as the location, a better suited region of the State would give more "realistic" results. An area that recieves occasional snow fall, or freezing temps for more than three consecutive days. That is not going to happen at the SREL. Conditions have been given that are in favor of the python, so the test is already off set.
To study if the snakes can adapt, the test conditions need to be against the pythons in order for them to try and "adapt".
Several years need to be studied as seasonal temperatures can vary greatly over the years. When I lived in Sumter, it snowed once, and the locals all told me it had been years since it snowed there, so temperatures are not always the same year after year.
And what about drought? Water availablity is also a key to large python survival. As many of you python keepers know, pythons love to soak in water to hydrate and digest meals. What happens when they are unable to do this during a drought? By providing them with a pond full of water that is warmer than most, conditions are in favor of the python. Natural rainfall fills ponds and in time of drought those ponds dry up.
The conditions that the snakes seem to be given are not that harsh and the snakes should be able to thrive with mankind watching over them so nurturing.
So let's jump ahead and say the pythons make it through the winter and they are fat a healthy with fuzzy bunnies. Then what is going to happen? We find out that under these controlled circumstances that pythons can survive in that region of SC, and then...?
That is the million dollar question...what comes of all of it? Someone publishes a paper on it? Maybe SC should study some of it's native animals that need specific habitat set aside for it to survive and just put the federal money to good use that way and save a native reptile.
Paul
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by pictigaster1 on June 14, 2009
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Doug I was not debateing you or your knowledge you are far more advanced than I.I only fear any propaganda that could arise in the aftermath .I agree with you in most of what you say.There are points that I do not.I enjoy and admire those who stand up for what they truley believe .So often people get angry and lash out on this site .I must say I enjoy a good debate on a worthy cause.
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by earthguy on June 14, 2009
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If anybody expects a nice, clean answer from any scientific experiment then they REALLY don't understand the scientific process. It is simply impossible to control all of the variables in things as complex as ecosystems.
Is this a perfect experiment? No. They never are. But I for one am looking forward to the results. If anybody out there thinks they have a better set up, then do it. Nowhere is it written that you have to be a government biologist to do an experiment.
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