RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by Adamanteus70 on June 14, 2009
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Currently Alligator Alley in Florida, occasionally there are releases or escapees found through out the State.
Paul
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by yoyoing on June 14, 2009
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I am not sure how comfortable I am with the idea of subjecting animals to environmental stress to see if they can survive. This would probably never be tried on anything cute and fuzzy.
I can't imagine the reaction if NG edits and narrates this so the animals all have names and are then shown in their suffering and dying. "Today we are dragging out the lifeless body of Buddy, who you may recall has been ill since the first frost."
This whole thing reminds me of Jurassic Park, with the same sex animals and escape proof enclosures.
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by earthguy on June 16, 2009
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James,
Studies like this are done on cute & fuzzies all the time (I'm sure if you look at PETA's web site they would be willing to give you plenty of examples). I don't know if they will actually let the pythons die because most colleges and universities that do animal research have codes of ethic that govern what can and can't be done on animals. Having never done research at Davidson (or SREL for that matter) I don't know what those particular codes of conduct are. For those who were complaining about the part of the experimental setup where the snakes get fed every two weeks, I suspect that the code of ethics has something to do with that.
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by Cro on June 16, 2009
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"most colleges and universities that do animal research have codes of ethic that govern what can and can't be done on animals"
And most colleges and universities do not think twice about dropping a animal into a jar of formaldahyde to add it to the pickle collection. New county record, pickle it. New state record, pickle it. New species, pickle it. And one is never enough, if you look at the lists that the pickle collections have. They often run into hundreds of of duplicate specimins.
It amazes me that all 12 of the Crotalus stejnegeri that have ever been found on the planet have been killed and pickled by the college folk who found them. None of those animals made it alive to a zoo where they could be bred and researched. How very selfish of the picklers. Then after killing every example they find, they write that: "it is considered to be facing a high risk of extinction in the wild."
How very selfish.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by earthguy on June 16, 2009
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You are absolutely correct. Voucher specimens really irritate me. As I said, it depends on the particualar institution.
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by yoyoing on June 17, 2009
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I am familiar with the ethical use of animals in experimentation. I think some aspects of this study cross the line, in particular the use of the word "survivorship". To get funding, an argument had to have been made that the benefits outweigh the suffering. Seeing those arguments would be interesting, especially given the apparent refusal to use alternative methodology (ie surveying owners of captive animals in SC, as already mentioned).
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by tigers9 on June 17, 2009
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Yes, there is the cuteness factor here, and part of the problem is that some of you owners yourselves refuse to call them PETS, but refer to them as specimens, that removes the loving association. (for novices here, my definition of a pet is anything i love and cherish, even if it doesn't return the love, one way street). Thsi also explains whi gator farms to save them from extinction are accepted, but tiger farms mention almost creates WW3.
And I was wondering about what youyoing wrote too, why not survey SC people who have outdoor enclosures to see at what temp point do their pythons start getting sick outdoors?
Z
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by earthguy on June 17, 2009
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Z,
Surveys are not generally considered objective enough to include in a study of this type. Surveys are more for the 'soft sciences' such as psycology, sociology, and poitical science. Biology requires more measurable metrics.
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by Rob_Carmichael on June 17, 2009
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Interesting discussions...filled with idealism, lack of understanding of the scientific process, and some good counter attacks on the study who make some excellent points that were obviousuly not included in this study - makes for good reading!
I think Doug hit the same points that were running through my mind. There has to be a starting point on a study like this. Is it perfect? Absolutely not as some of you have mentioned. Is it flawed? Sure. But does that mean it has no scientific validity? I think it does. It's a place to start in order to accumulate some degree of knowledge. My guess is that even though this is a one year study, it will turn into something more than that as funding becomes available. It also provides the impetus to springboard other researchers and doctoral students to design better studies looking at the same intent of the study. Personally, I'm very interested to find out what SREL finds out - they run a pretty good operation and I can't imagine they would be swayed one way or the other.
When I started a study radio tracking fox snakes with the purpose of trying to determine range, habitat preferences and other important data with the intent of having to translocate an entire population most folks thought I was crazy. I was told "you can't move an entire population you moron!" Well, perhaps they are right. But, this is a population whose hibernaculum is going to be demolished any day and as such, we have few alternatives. Sure, there's very little previous studies that have taken place on this subject but there has to be a starting point. We may find that as a result of our work, other conservation efforts may discover certain things that stemmed from our successes, or, perhaps our failures. Only time will tell.
Who knows, maybe someday I'll catch my first wild burmese python in Illinois:-)
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by tigers9 on June 17, 2009
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How are the pythons going to be chosen? Will these pythons come from places that kept them outdoors or will these be formner indoor pets or wild caught imports? This study reminds me all the other 'scientific' studies where one year coffee is great for your health and next year it is the deadliest beverage on the planet earth, gee, I guess the 1st year it was financed by Starbucks and 2nd year by church of mormons?
Z
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