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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by Cro on June 17, 2009
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The pythons used in the experiment should be ones that have been captured in the Everglades of Florida.
After all, those are the ones that they are worried about. They should already be acclimated to the outdoor climate and sun light exposure, and shuld have some ability to hide and perhaps even create burrows.
Using pet trade snakes or new imports would make the experiment meaningless.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by yoyoing on June 17, 2009
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A survey can be used to form a hypothesis about whether the experiment is necessary. This is used in epidemiology and other fields of study. Maybe, for example, SC is not the best location over a choice further south and having more marginal chances of survival. I know that animals can be used under circumstances that can be defended, I just don't see that here. The filming of the "experiment" makes the motives even more questionable.
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by Cro on June 17, 2009
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As Doug and Rob have stated, the study will probably produce some data that is of use.
However, I am still very dissapointed in what appear to be many flaws in how the study is set up. It would seem to be much better if the flaws were corrected before the project is started, so that it can produce much more meaningfull information. I really do not think "just having a starting point" is a good enough excuse to start a project.
I sure would love to see the written research proposal, and would love to know who is involved, what those students have accomplished in the past, what they hope to accomplish with this study, and just how large a research grant they have been given.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by FLherp on June 17, 2009
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A properly developed research study will take into account confounders, and and will include them in its findings. It is one short research project and the data will be included in the final paper and subject to discussion and other interpretations. That is the way the scientific process works. Very little can be based on the findings of one project with eight specimens. The results will still be subjected to debate. Consider the USGS paper on the potential range of Burmese pythons, the conclusion was fairly quickly questioned based on assumptions made in the body of the paper. Please do not use newspaper reports to decide on what is or isn not in a scientific paper, most reporters are scientifically illiterate.
Welfare of animals used in research are subject to the Animal Welfare Act and Institutional Animal Care and Use Committees and perhaps an ethics board for that institution.
Males were likley used to prevent the potential for escape and breeding. trying to draw too many conclusions from a single experiment can pose risks to the validity of those conclusions. Better to demonstrate that under certain circumstances burmese pythons can survive than to jump right in and prove they can also reproduce simultaneously.
The state of Florida has a plan for controlling the spread of burmese pythons anyway. They intend to develop the I-4 corridor from east to west to such a density that migration of burmese North of that point will be nearly impossible. It is a de facto plan rather than a conscious effort.
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by tigers9 on June 17, 2009
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FLHerp wrote:<<Welfare of animals used in research are subject to the Animal Welfare Act and Institutional Animal Care and Use Committees and perhaps an ethics board for that institution. >>
read here:
http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/pubs/Reptiles/reptiles.shtml
snip
About this Document
The citations in this bibliography pertain to the health, care and housing of reptiles owned as pets, exhibited in zoos and aquariums, or used for research.
The Federal Animal Welfare Act defines “animal” as any live or dead dog, cat, nonhuman primate, guinea pig, hamster, rabbit, or any other warmblooded animal, which is being used, or is intended for use for research, teaching, testing, experimentation, or exhibition purposes, or as a pet. It thus excludes reptiles and amphibians from coverage. Some reptiles and amphibians are considered endangered species and are thus protected by CITES and the Endangered Species Act.
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by earthguy on June 17, 2009
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The main problem with this discussion is that NOBODY here (as far as I know) has read the prospectus. We are basing our discussion on an article written by a news reporter. In my experince, things get lost in translation.
On a related note, a few herpers that I know are trying to re-start the South Carolina Herpetological Conference this year. I will see what I can do to see if Mike will come speak at that, to clear the waters a little.
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by FLherp on June 17, 2009
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Actually there are applications to all vertebrate animals:
http://www.researchtraining.org/referencedocuments/animalrefs/phs/arena.html
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by yoyoing on June 17, 2009
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"The main problem with this discussion is that NOBODY here (as far as I know) has read the prospectus. We are basing our discussion on an article written by a news reporter. In my experince, things get lost in translation."
And who's fault is that? This thing reeks of attention grabbing on the part of the investigator, making it fair game.
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by yoyoing on June 17, 2009
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Sorry for the previous harsh post. Dr. Dorcas is easy enough to find with a search. Seems like a legit guy. That being said, there is nothing wrong with discussing what has been revealed of the study on a forum such as this.
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RE: Pythons are coming to SC!
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by kacz on June 17, 2009
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I seem to be missing something here! As of now the only sustained population of Burms is in extreme South Florida. Before we consider the eventual range let’s consider the etiology of the present population. If they originated as a result of a large-scale influx such as hurricane Andrew destroying mass importers, or as some postulate, a government black ops gone awry, then the re-occurrence of an introduction elsewhere is minimal. No broad laws affecting the small hobbyist are necessary.
If the current population was seeded by individual releases finding and breeding with each other, then the phenomena has already limited itself. Isn’t it foolish to think that releases have only occurred in extreme South Florida? Why isn’t there a flourishing population in Texas, Georgia or Louisiana? Again, no laws are necessary. The damage is already done where the damage can be done.
Kacz
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