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LET'S TALK ABOUT SELF IMMUZATION OF SNAKE VENOM.
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by spanky on April 10, 2003
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It's time to get a ass-chewing. come get me. I have been doing self immuzation of snake venom for a year now. 60mg of Eastern diamondback venom, 40mg of canebrake rattle snake venom, 30mg Eastern cottonmouth venom, to 192ml of sterle water for injection. I take 15units once a week, intermucle. I have had a blood test once per mounth. and have had no trouble with them. I have been told there was many other things that would hurt me that would not show up on blood tests. and there were no tests to find the damage. There was been many people doing this, and to my knowledge, no one has had any troulbe with this procedure. This has been being done by people like (Bill Haast) and many others, for many years. I am looking for feed-back on this subject. Thank you Spanky
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RE: LET'S TALK ABOUT SELF IMMUZATION OF SNAKE VENO
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by spanky on April 10, 2003
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John. Yes it doed work. I have been bite 9 times, in the last three years. EDB, Canebrakes, cottonmouths, and copperheads. The longerI take the shots the better the bite symptoms. so yes it does work for that. but does it kill me in other ways.?????
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I used to take very small doses
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by jared on April 10, 2003
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of eastern Cotton and Copperhead venom under the skin, not IM. I did this for about 3 years and never had any problems other than localized swelling. Last year (as many of you know) I took my first real hit, I was removing a retained eyecap on a juvie Green swamp eastern cotton and in the process (this animal was having some life/death issues anyway)one left fang managed to grab the skin right at the epicenter of my left index finger, and he unloaded (the animal died the next day). Within 30 seconds I had black discoloration to my knuckle, within a minute and a half my hand blew up. I took signifigant tissue loss in my left index finger and signed, not one but 2 waivers (one to keep the Dr.s from removing my index and middle fingers, the other to leave) to keep on the treatment course that I had set up> The first F#&U$* thing the Dr did when I came in the hospital, with a 50 page bite protocol for Agkistrodon, was to try and get me to stick my entire hand in an ICE BAG!?! This is a major metro hospital telling me this?! I went with my protocol, and the treatment I felt was best, (Still under heavy doses of dilottid after my fasciotomy) and now almost 1 year later my finger can function at 75% with most feeling recovered with the exception of the first 1/2 inch. And the doctors wanted to remove my fingers at the center knuckle? I havent had any problems, and I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT EVERYONE TRY SELF IMMUNIZATION but there are those who do self-immunize and personally I dont know many that have had any problems. Again, I think it depends alot on species and locality of certain animals used as the toxins are going to vary road to road, city to city, county to county etc. These are just my personal experiences on the topic, I also have been working with hots since I was 16, herps since 3 and have only had one significant envenomation, I have been fanged with no reactions while worming, force feeding, with no reaction, again less than 3 times I have had a fang touch my skin total and on a good day I work with 30-40 Crotalus and Agkistrodon. Again, everyone should just be careful, its not macho to get tagged and personally that damn cottonmouth whooped my big ass pretty bad. I do what I do because I have always been intrigued by herps and hunted snakes since I could walk, I dont know why, but thats what makes me happy, and nothin makes me smile more than seeing some rattles jig across the sand at night or a beautiful coral band fall from pine tree bark in the spring dew. Word my 0.02
jared
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RE: I used to take very small doses
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by spanky on April 10, 2003
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Do you still do self immuzation.? and have you ever increased the amount of venom.? or added any different kinds to it.? Spanky
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No I stopped about a year
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by jared on April 10, 2003
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ago, and No i didnt use any other venom, though I have been considering reformating my formula and using some other hots and maybe exotics since I have noticed most prefer to use elapids for this purpose and not vipers, though I will still (if I do) use certain species.
Jared
Ja
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RE: No I stopped about a year
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by Chris_Harper on April 10, 2003
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Okay, you posted this, so now you have to answer to the scrutiny: 9 times in 3 years!?!? I have been bitten 0 times in my life and I am 36 years old. I know other keepers who have been keeping for 20 to 30 years, also with 0 bites. How do you explain this? Why can't you avoid being bitten? I don't understand.
I'm not saying I will never be bitten, but an average of 3 bites per year is a pretty atrocious handling record. Personally, I would have to lay down my hook and get a new hobby before I ended up dead.
CH
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RE: No I stopped about a year
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by spanky on April 10, 2003
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Hey Chris. Like I have siad before, I will give up keeping hot's when they pry my cold died fingers off the snake. Hot's are my life and that will never change. not for any reason. And there are many other hot keepers that have bite more than me. Like (Bill Haast) I do not see anyone telling him to give it up. What say you.??? "Oh" and he is by far the only one. And Thanks for your advice. But no, there is no way I will ever give it up. Spanky
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RE: No I stopped about a year
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by Nakita on April 10, 2003
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Qoute from Spanky.
And there are many other hot keepers that have bite more than me. Like (Bill Haast) I do not see anyone telling him to give it up.
You must realize that Bill Haast takes these risks to perform a valuable service for the scientific and medical community. From what I have read of your posts about the only thing you are contributing to medical research/ scientific research is to prove that wisdom doesn't come with age.
I am sorry if I have offended you but quite honestly nothing in any of your previous posts/replies has lent any credibility to your ability to keep these animals safely.
Sincerely
Jackie Lapradd
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RE: No I stopped about a year
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by Chris_Harper on April 10, 2003
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The difference between you and Bill Haast is that he has been bitten 170 times in 55 years, with a total of over 2,000,000 milkings. That's about 1 bite for every 12,000 times he picked up a snake. That's pretty good considering that there aren't many people here who have picked up 12,000 snakes, much less 2,000,000. Can you think of anything you've done 2 million times?
Bill was the sole provider of dry venom for many years for the manufacture of rattlesnake antivenom in the US. And probably many other types of antivenom as well. You are a private keeper who really has no really good reason to handle snakes frequently. Most cage cleaning, snake feeding, watering, etc. can be done without EVER picking up a snake. In my profile you can see that there is a photo of me using the double hook method.
Yes, I do handle snakes, tail snakes etc. But I never free-handle, because there's just not a good reason to do it. In my opinion, it's an unnecessary risk that leads to big hospital bills, lost time at work, and unnecessary worry for my wife. I use safe, proven techniques such as tubing, double hooking, bag sticks etc. [Have a look at the article that Allen Hunter and I wrote in the August 2002 issue of Reptiles magazine on the issue of safe keeping.]
Pointing to Bill Haast does not justify your track record. It is possible to keep snakes and never be bitten, or at the very least limit your bites to 1 or 2 in your career.
CH
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