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RE: Interesting note from the Charlotte, NC show..
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by Aries54 on October 5, 2009
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Yea, I know a few people that said they had some "under the table" as well. Either way, Cabarrus county is pretty much the same as Mecklenburg county (from what I understand) and that anything hot is illegal to have. No question about it. I know this from experiance several years ago. I was dumb and didnt follow up with mecklenburg county (charlotte) laws when I moved back there, and almost got into alot of trouble for having cobras and rattlers.
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RE: Interesting note from the Charlotte, NC show..
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by pitbulllady on October 5, 2009
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The rear-fanged snakes were not under the table, but right there on top with everything else, in full view. I'm in SC, not NC, and honestly have not dug deeper into the details of our neighbor's venomous snake laws; I just know you aren't supposed to have them OR turtles and tortoises(what dangerous animals, gasp!)at shows. It really makes me say a heart-felt prayer of thanks that I live in SOUTH Carolina, in spite of our many problems.
I guess the sucky economy is to blame for the lack of buyers, since I went to the show in the spring, and there were a lot of people buying that time. Unfortunately, I wasn't selling anything then, and the economy has really tanked just in the short span of time between this show and the previous one. Little kids got in free, so parents found this to be a good bargain insofar as entertainment for the youngun's. A lot of the kids were not supervised at all, though, and that is a lot worse a problem than someone having a couple of Mangroves of FWC's on the table.
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RE: Interesting note from the Charlotte, NC show..
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by SerpenXotics on October 5, 2009
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I had a pair of FWC at the show. I had them clearly displayed on my table. I was not aware of any laws pertaining to the sale of any rear fanged species. I seen several other vendors with rear fanged at the show. I had conversations with the show promoters while handling one of the FWC's and would think if there was any issues they would have given me some form of a warning or notice. i have always been under the assumption that rear fanged snakes did not fall under the category of "venomous" with the front fanged species. I know of many keepers nation wide whom keep rear fanged in states that venomous is definitely illegal. And they are kept there legally also I see people ship rear fanged through company's like Fed ex.I think this is being blown way out of proportion guys we are just creating more problems for ourselves as keepers and posting stuff like this in a public forum can be another notch on the belt for up and coming bans and regulations. I agree that most keepers do not believe that these animals can cause a serious envenomation and most can. But why should we as friends and acquaintances stir these issues with each other.
Just my .02 cents
And Marty is 100% correct I also seen a ton of venomous traffic I did not expect and actually seen some vendors I would not have expected this type of behavior from. I was also told by some that it was legal which I did not believe.
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RE: Interesting note from the Charlotte, NC show..
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by southerncat on October 5, 2009
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Why in the world would you folks that KNEW that something was at the show that was illegal not bring it to Repticon's attention then and there?
Why wait till after the show? With ALL the bans trying to be past, why wait? Are we not suppose to police ourselves??
We (Repticon) don't have time to look at every animal on AND under the tables. If we see something wrong, we deal with it then.
Are some of you wanting the wrong person to see or hear about stuff like this being at the show? Because if you are they WILL shut down a show in a heart beat!!
We have REPEATEDLY ask EVERYONE to report any illegal activities at ANY of the Repticon show, IMMEDIATELY to us.
I am guessing that some have forgotten that the officials read posts on this site. So not saying anything then and waiting to post on this site IS just as wrong as the person/s that had the illegal animals!
I am not sure about the rear fanged snakes but I WILL be sure by the next show!
Now for the bad show:
This was a half good show for half and the other half had a bad show. Why? I am not really sure other than the economy. Repticon did almost $3500 extra advertisements than the last show there. We had 3 huge billboards running on I85 through Charlotte,TV Ads, plus fliers, ads running on 2 radio stations, ad in Reptile Magazine. We do no have a petting Zoo for the mere fact of not bringing in alot of non Reptile people.
I am sorry if I came off a little defensive, but you have to see where I am coming from.
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RE: Interesting note from the Charlotte, NC show..
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by southerncat on October 5, 2009
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http://www.cabarruslaw.us/downloads/cabarrus_county_animal_control_ordinance.pdf
ARTICLE VI. INHERENTLY DANGEROUS ANIMALS
Sec. 10-131. Definitions.
(a) For the purpose of this article, an inherently dangerous animal includes any
inherently dangerous exotic mammal or inherently dangerous reptile defined herein.
(b) Inherently dangerous exotic mammal is any member of the canidae, felidae, or
ursidae families, including hybrids thereof, which due to their inherent nature, may be
considered dangerous to humans.
(1) Canidae includes any member of the dog (canid) family not customarily
domesticated by man, or any hybrids of such canidae thereof, including wolf
hybrids which are a cross between a wolf and a domestic dog, but not including
dogs (Canis familaris).
(2) Felidae includes any member of the cat family not customarily
domesticated by man or any hybrids of such felidae, but not including domestic
cats (Felis catus).
(3) Ursidae includes any member of the bear family, or hybrids of such ursidae.
(c) Inherently dangerous reptile is any member of the class reptilia which:
(1) Is venomous. A venomous reptile shall include all members of the families
Helodermidae (gila monsters and Mexican beaded lizards), Viperidae (vipers),
Crotalidae (pit vipers), Atractaspidae (burrowing asps), Hydrophilidae (snakes),
and Elapidae (cobras, coral snakes, and their allies), as well as any "rear fanged"
snakes of the family Colubridae that are known to be dangerous to humans
(including, but not limited to Dispholidus typus (boomslang), Thebtornis
kirtlandii (twig snake), Rhabdophisspp (keelbacks)).
(2) Is a member of the order Crocodilia (crocodiles, alligators, and caiman).
(d) Harborer of an inherently dangerous exotic mammal or inherently dangerous reptile
is any person or persons, regardless of ownership, who allows an inherently dangerous
exotic mammal or inherently dangerous reptile to remain, lodge, or be fed or to be given
shelter or refuge within a person's home, store, yard, enclosure, outbuilding, abandoned
vehicle or building, place of business, or any other premises in which the person resides
or over which the person has control.
(Ord. of 7-22-96)
Sec. 10-132. Possession of inherently dangerous animals.
At no time may any person or persons harbor an inherently dangerous exotic mammal or
inherently dangerous reptile.
(Ord. of 7-22-96)
Sec. 10-133. Exceptions.
This article does not apply to:
(1) Veterinary clinics in possession of such mammals or reptiles for treatment
or rehabilitation purposes.
(2) Any institution or organization which exists primarily to educate the public
in the areas of science and nature; which receives or has received financial
support from federal, state, and/or local governments; which has a paid
membership open to and composed of members of the general public; which is
directed by a board of directors or similar body elected by the membership; and
which has been declared a 501(c)(3) exempt organization by the Internal Revenue
Service.
(3) Nonresident circuses for not longer than one seven-day period, per each
separate location where such circuses are held within the county, per calendar
year.
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RE: Interesting note from the Charlotte, NC show..
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by agkistrodude on October 5, 2009
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I wasn't there Cathy, or maybe I would have brought it to your attn. What I posted was basically hearsay, something I was told. The 4 snakes I picked up were non venomous. Take care, Marty
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RE: Interesting note from the Charlotte, NC show..
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by southerncat on October 5, 2009
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Yeah Marty I know you was not there....I did get to see your snakes...cool looking little buggers :)
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RE: Interesting note from the Charlotte, NC show..
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by Cro on October 5, 2009
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I am really amazed that folks would come here and start complaining about the reptile show, while they set on their fat butts at the show, and did not bring any problems to the attention of Repticon folks running the show, while they were there !
Cathy is right, it is up to the folks who vend at the shows to police themselves, or, the government folks will be happy to step in and do it for you.
And now that you all have posted on this forum that illegal animals were sold there, above, or below the tables, do you think that the game and fish folks who read these forums will ignore that ? Do you think they will ignore that you say that they are too dumb to know a king snake from a mangrove snake ? Most likely, they will educate themselves, and next time, they will be able to know the difference. Also, what about the animal rights folks and news paper folks. Do you think they did not just read all of that, and not pay attention ? Gosh, only a few hundred thousand folks read this forum every month ! Perhaps they will just not notice ?
Sure, you all want to complain that the show did not make money for you. Well, get used to it. This country is heading into a depression, and things are going to get worse. I go to shows to see friends, and if I am lucky, I might break even on the table cost. Or not.
If all it is about is making money, then you are in the wrong business. Most folks who attend shows have no intention of buying anything. They are there because it is cheaper to go to a reptile show to keep the kids entertained, than it is to go to a zoo.
The people who are in the reptile hobby are the ones who are killing it.
I gave it 5 years, but, I am now thinking 3 years max, before it is all legislated out of existence.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Interesting note from the Charlotte, NC show..
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by pictigaster1 on October 5, 2009
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You know John I felt the same way .Cathy was right and you .People do not seem to realize that this is a well read site.This is what I would call bad press, too bad.I just hope that next time the vendors and the buyers will use a little more common sense.These events are a great attraction for the reptile industry and gives private breeders a way to market there product.As John stated this country is in grave trouble the economy sucks the reptile hobby is under attack WTF.John 3 years is a mabie at this rate.Now we as a whole have been portrayed as crimminal.This is not about the vendor who had venomou under his table it is about the community as a whole.Repticon does its best to provide a legal venue to the industry this is no way to show thanks.Cathy should of been notified of any misdeeds at the show not here.So from me and the entire reptile community Thanks for your strong and steadfast support.
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RE: Interesting note from the Charlotte, NC show..
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by lanceheads on October 6, 2009
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As a show promoter myself (Texas Reptiles Expos), I am in 100% agreement with Cathy.
We can't do anything about it unless you tell us (hopefully) before the show open's.
I can't walk around to every table and check EVERY animal.Sometimes vendor's when they see me coming during set-up, put things underneath their table until the show opens. They know I'm busy with the crowd and they sneak that stuff back up there.
We HAVE to Police ourselves, or I see it becoming an end to show's.
My 2 cents.
Randal Berry
www.Texasreptiles.com
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