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RE: 2010 Rattlesnake Round Up
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by Cro on February 15, 2010
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Sloane, The groups I mentioned on FaceBook are planning to have people at the various roundups. It would be good if you could contact them with you idea and offer.
It would be more difficult to do something through the SHHS, as we mostly exist online these days, and are no longer a real herp society.
While the gassing of gopher tortoise burrows is supposed to be illegal, most of that goes on long before the roundups, and on private lands. Often those lands belong to hunting clubs, etc. It would be very difficult for a game warden to catch the folks in the act, although about 90% of the snakes that are brought in, are by a handful of hunters. So, perhaps those few hunters could be targeted.
Of course, that also assumes that the local game warden would take an interest in the first place. Since he lives in the community, and his kids go to school with folks in the community, and probably also go to church with folks in the community, there is a lot of incentive for a game warden to not want to get involved.
It would almost take a undercover person from game & fish to infiltrate the groups to be able to catch them in the act of gassing burrows.
As others have said, a lot of this is about money. Fitzgerald replaced their roundups with an arts and crafts fair. If it could be shown to the folks in those towns that they could raise much more money for the charities they support by not having roundups, but other events, like craft fairs, then you might be able to get them to change their ways.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: 2010 Rattlesnake Round Up
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by Irishviper on February 15, 2010
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In 1998 I was asked to do a head count for Tex Parks and Wildlife along with a couple of other biologist. The nunmbers were over 10,000 atrox. Not to mention bull snakes, coachwhips, and some massasauga caught near Hebronville. I was told the vast majority of them were gased out of dens. If that is true, anything in the den will die. It usually takes a few months, but the lining in their lungs burns causing fluid build up and eventually death. Not only are rattlesnakes killed but anything in the dens to include tortoise. You would think that based on that factor alone harsher rules would be pushed for. Thus far the all mighty dollar still wins out when it comes to animals.
Alan
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RE: 2010 Rattlesnake Round Up
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by FSB on February 15, 2010
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About a year ago when I had more time on my hands, I started a group on Facebook devoted to rattlesnakes, rattlesnake conservation and opposing rattlesnake round-ups called "Don't Tread on Me." The idea was that if the mindless buggers who think they're doing everyone a big favor by killing rattlesnakes are too mindless to understand logic-based appeals for maintaining biodiversity and ecological balance, etc., then they might at least respond to being labeled as unpatriotic for destroying one of our oldest national symbols. Unfortunately, a new job and other responsibilities have left me with almost no time for side projects, and on top of that, certain other mindless buggers who can somehow still manage to operate a computer while being otherwise completely brainless, have never been able to understand that the group is about rattlesnakes and not politics, and have repeatedly fouled it up with political rantings and spam. There are still an awful lot of very nice [rattlesnake] photos in the gallery [once you get past the array of t-shirt ads posted by one of the aforementioned buggers]. I am thinking of sending a message to the group suggesting that everyone who has not already done so join Rise Against Rattlesnake Roundups, since this really needs to be a concerted effort backed up by a lot of numbers, and it seems that Jared has the time and energy to devote to the cause that could make a difference. Too bad our legislators and the so-called HSUS can't devote one tenth of the time and energy they spend attacking reptile keepers to eliminating this annual butchery, which should be a great embarrassment to all Americans.
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RE: 2010 Rattlesnake Round Up
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by pictigaster1 on February 15, 2010
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It is still against the law to put any petrolium product in to the groung.When I drove a truck I had a leak on the side of the road near Dallas.DOT pulled over and measured the spill and decided it was just short of the 10000 dollar fine gave me a warning ticket and went on there way.At another stop one of our drivers got the fine.10,000 SNAKES OH MY GOD.That is an enviormental assalt like no other just sick.
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RE: 2010 Rattlesnake Round Up
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by jay72 on February 16, 2010
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One of the arguments that the roundup promoters use is that the venom collected is used for medical research. I have heard that the companies would not buy venom from roundups due to it not being in a lab setting.
I have also heard that they do but just keep it quiet. I would like to know the truth to this. I know that the guy who does the venom extraction at the Georgia and Alabama roundups has a company that sells venom. If you would ever see the brutal way he pins them (the snakes faces and head look disfigured) and milks them, i am curious to see if the medical companies actually buy this venom when there are several respectable labs that do it in proper conditions.
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RE: 2010 Rattlesnake Round Up
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by Ptk on February 16, 2010
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I wouldnt be too quick to judge a lab for buying this "venom". They are probably getting deceived just like everyone that comes to the roundup. I imagine most goes down the toilet but give these promoters another way to profit off their endeavors and I wouldnt past them.
Thanks John Z for the above links - have visited some already - good stuff!!!
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RE: 2010 Rattlesnake Round Up
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by Cro on February 17, 2010
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Whether the venom milked from the roundup snakes is sold, or poured on the ground really does not matter all that much.
Even though the roundup is not a lab setting, the venom if stored correctly might be sold to some labs where it could be put to various uses.
The folks want to make as much money as possible, so, they sell the snake skins, meat, rattles, venom, etc.
The main concern though is that the rattlesnakes have been removed from a place in nature where they were playing a role in the balance of the ecosystem.
And, in addition to that, the ecosystem has been damaged by gassing of gopher tortoise burrows, which kills the other animals that use those burrows.
In the western states, the dens are also gassed, and snakes that would have spread over many miles to play a part in the natural balance have been eliminated.
But, getting back on topic, the use / or not use, of the venom at the roundups is a minor thing in the whole scheme of things.
We have to remember that Herpetologist Ross Allen is to some extent responsible for some of the early roundups in the SE States, as he was the one who was purchasing the snakes. If he had not created the market for them, then many of the roundups would probably never have started.
The roundup snakes were milked for venom, which was sold to the Wyeth company to make antivenin, and, because the snakes would die from being gassed out of burrows, he also created the market for the skins and meat of those snakes.
However, back then, a lot of Florida, Georgia, and Alabama was wilderness area, and the snakes were abundant. And, in those days, the idea that some gasoline introduced into a tortoise burrow could cause all kinds of ecological damage was not a consideration.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: 2010 Rattlesnake Round Up
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by Irishviper on February 17, 2010
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I can't help but wonder if there is any kind of build up of petrolium in the tissue of rattle snakes being consumed at the round ups. I don't have the facility here in west Texas, but that could be a health issue to people that might give us at least some additional leverage to get theses stings stopped. Might be grasping at straws here, but you never really know until after the research is done.
Alan
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RE: 2010 Rattlesnake Round Up
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by ChunkHead on February 17, 2010
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Going to some of the snakeshows in the southeast (I can't speak to the shows in other areas) is sometimes akin to the rattlesnake roundups. Numbers of locals go into the woods and collect every copperhead and cottonmouth they see and bring them to the various shows. Many of the snakes are in poor condition when displayed for sale, and what happens to them after the shows is hard to say. They either die, or are re-released in poor health. We should clean up our snakeshows in addition to tackling the roundups.
Of course I am not opposed to people collecting snakes from time to time, but we should police ourselves, too.
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RE: 2010 Rattlesnake Round Up
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by Cro on February 17, 2010
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Alan, studies were conducted back in the 1970's that showed that the gasoline fumes burn and damage the lung tissue of the snakes, and cause death within a couple of weeks due to that damage.
However, it is likely since the gasoline fumes are involved, they are exhaled, and most likely very little would remain to become part of the muscle tissue that is eaten when the snakes are cooked.
But, it would be interesting to test to find out for sure, if a public health lab could be convinced to conduct the tests on samples of the rattle snake meat.
As far as the folks who over collect native snakes in large numbers just to try to sell them at reptile shows, I agree that is a bad thing, and is something that the show promoters should regulate to a larger extent. I do not think that the shows should necessarily become captive bred only, however, some sort of limit or restrictions should apply to the folks who are obviously collecting large numbers of snakes just to make money.
Best Regards
John Z
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