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The Hypocracy on This Site.
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by kaouthiaking187 on March 26, 2011
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A lot of people, including myself, come to this website, which is in itself indifferent to all personal biases, to learn about venomous reptiles and share ideas about the animals and hobby we love. However, I would like to ask how we are suppose to do this when there is a group of ideologues who frequent the forums every day, responding to most of the posts here, and ganging up on those with whom they disagree. Namely, they are: lanceheads, Buzztail1, AquaHerp, snakeguy101, CanadianSnakeMan, Rob_Carmichael, LarryDFishel, Crotalusssp, theemojohnm, vanerka, LarryDFishel, agkistrodude, Existential, Cro, Peter84Jenkins, Time, and nietzsche, etc. However, before I go any further, I would like to state that this is not a personal attack on anyone, but rather, just an observation that I find it interesting because on a site such as this, one would think that there would be 100's, if not 1,000's, of people creating 100's of threads a day. But there is not. Why ? Could it be because there is a gang of members, who go around bullying people who think differently than they do. Deleting comments when other writers show them to be wrong, ganging up on members they disagree with, and constantly reinforcing a stringent, naive, irresponsible, and bureaucratic ideology that undermines serious private reptile collectors and treats them as if they are doing something wrong and shouldn't be taken seriously. Possibly, but if this is the case, what is it about these members that separates them from most people. What are they about ? What is it exactly that they are trying to say and what is there ideology exactly ? Here is my answer based on what I have observed on this site. These members all believe that keeping venomous reptiles is something that not just any can do. They believe venomous reptiles should not be kept in private collections, and they believe that only certain highly trained people should have these animals as "one bite could mean serious injury or even death." Hence, they are for regulating the private trade of hots out of existence so that only those select few gifted people may practice keeping them. To achieve this end they employ three tactics. First, they bring out the caricature of private possession . Showing all the serious injuries, accidents, and dangers of hot ownership. Second, they guilt you into not owning hots by saying things like, " these animals aren't pets," and " you're not ready for one of these snakes, go start with a corn snake." They make you feel that by owning one of these animals that you are doing something inherently wrong, and that you should be punished for this. Third, they suck all the life from the hobby by attacking anything that would make the public more interested in keeping these animals or anything that is fun. They attack venomoids, hybrids, venom defender gloves, etc. If it is exciting or new its bad and you should be ashamed of yourself. But is this ethical ? Of course ! This is all good and reasonable, don't you get it, they are trying to protect you from yourself. You need to be brainwashed into submission because if you were left to your own stupid ideas who knows what kind of evil negligence you would be capable of you monster ! This needs to be done ! Right ? Maybe not. As reasonable as all this sounds, and as good as it looks on paper, it flies in the face of what we actually know. The reality of the situation is that in states where hots are legal thousands of people go to reptiles expo's and by hots with little or no experience, and everything works out just fine. People aren't dyeing on a massive scale, snakes aren't escaping and attacking children, and hospitals aren't being overwhelmed with snake bit victims. For the most part, everything is working out just fine. In fact, horses, plastic bags, and dogs, kill more people in a single year then most hots will in a lifetime. Are there accidents, sure, is it dangerous, of course, should it be outlawed NO. Like communism, these ideas look good on paper, however, they cannot account for the practical reality that most people who buy hots with little or no experience have no problem keeping them. This is most likely because since people know the animals are dangerous they take the proper precautions to deal with them. As where with dogs, horses, and bags, an attack or accident can happen unexpectedly. In reality, owning hots is not that big of a deal, it's all hype, once you spend some time with the snake, domesticate it, and get used to handling it, owning one will become so simple and normalized that you will wonder why you ever hesitated to get one in the first place. People should not feel guilty about owning hots, they should be kept as pets, they should be curious about hybrids and venomoids and be interested in new ways to keep their animals, and most of the gang I mentioned above knows this. So the question then becomes why are they trying to undermine private reptile ownership ? There are three answer. First, many of the people above have an interest in taking snakes out of private hands. If you look at the profiles of the people I listed, more than half of them work in zoo's or reptile museums (lanceheads, Buzztail1, AquaHerp, snakeguy101, CanadianSnakeMan, Rob_Carmichael). Many others on the site sell venom and work with hots in others ways. But why would zoo keepers, venom extractors, and others want to limit private ownership ? Think about stupid, people are interested in exotic reptiles, but if anyone could just walk into a pet shop and buy one, then no one would go to the zoo's anymore would they ? Also, less snakes on the market gives the people who extract venom a better monopoly on the industry. So obviously certain people have an interest in making you think that you are too stupid to own a hot snake. Second, and on the other end of the spectrum, some of these people do not own venomous reptiles at all. They just come on here and talk about what they think should be done because of the books they read (tricky because they may sound like experts), or because their friend or relative has a hot snake and they are interested in these animals. Yet they have not real knowledge or experience with these animals. They just talk the good one. Third, I have no doubt that some of these people are bureaucrats who may work for agencies that regulate these animals and are just trying to discourage private ownership. you can tell by the way some of these people talk that they are not passionate about keeping reptiles. If you think this is far out there think again. Government agencies do things like this to spread disinformation all the time and I have no doubt that government agencies are watching this site. These three points intermingle at certain areas as well. For instance, zoo keepers may be more passionate about profits the their animals, and since they adhere to unnecessarily strict protocols, they may have evolved bureaucrat like attitudes over time. So in my opinion experts are people who keep venomous reptiles in private collections, who do not have an interest in destroying the private pet industry, and who have a general passion for herpetology. But how are we supposed to function on this site when we have a gang of people stalking the threads and attacking any opinion that doesn't undermine private possession ? Shouldn't the threads be open to anyone who has an interest in these animals ?
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RE: The Hypocracy on This Site.
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by lanceheads on March 27, 2011
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Frank,
Why don't you start your own website or blog, instead of clogging this one up with your personal ramblings and non-sensical thoughts that drift away from the topics?
NOT making this PERSONAL, mind you, but you tend to "keep" arguing your point to everyone, no matter what other opinions are offered.Perhaps if you started your own "blog". like-minded folks would join you.
I wish you well my friend, and good luck in your endeavors.
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RE: The Hypocracy on This Site.
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by Pug on March 27, 2011
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I don't know if you are aware of the decades of experience the folks you named have under their belts. My thumbing your nose at them you have underscored your naivete. You could learn a great deal by absorbing the information that they offer. Instead you choose to behave like a brat. Your choice, amigo.
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RE: The Hypocracy on This Site.
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by pdk9Roper on March 27, 2011
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Why is any one even responding to these post??? First off, he didn't even fell out his profile, and second, arguing on line is just stupid, and the only Hypocrisy, is him coming on a venomous site and arguing for venomoids, and calling them pets, and letting kids have a "HOT", if you have to ask whether or not to give your kid a "HOT", the answer should obviously be "NO"!!! I don't get on here very often because of just this sort of thing. I have been keeping Venomous for over 40 years, and I will be the first to admit that I don't know everything about them, I have learned alot through the years and had some pretty close calls while learning, every time I go out to the Hot room, I learn something or observe something new, but with our choice to keep "HOTS", automatically comes alot of responsibility, if we want respectability, and to continue to pursue our love and interest and with some, even our profession, we can't engage trolls and those that seem to be working against our efforts to stave off the legislation that some are working so hard every day to pass, that would end or greatly restrict our choice to keep and study "Hots".
Personally, I have much more important things to deal with and take care of, like caring for my family, making a living, which helps me take care of my collection of herps, that require alot of time and attention, then to wast time on here arguing or even responding to some one that does not have the betterment of this site or even the hobbie, or profession of keeping "HOT" herps. These type of people arn't even worth the time, just ignore them, like a red bug, (chigger), sooner or later, they will go away. If you argue with them, or engage them in any way, it's like scratching a chigger, it itches more and gets worse,just a thought....
I want to think the ones that work to make this site as helpful and informative as it is, it too takes a lot of time and effort, thanks Carl and John and the rest of you, this is a great site and I guess will always come under fire by the trolls...
Keith
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RE: The Hypocracy on This Site.
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by lanceheads on March 27, 2011
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Frank, Knock off the personal attacks before Karl or John vanquish you into the cyberspace for good.
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RE: The Hypocracy on This Site.
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by FlaSnakeHunter on March 27, 2011
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kaouthiaking, you now own the 1st place position for the most ignorant, rambling and non-sensical diatribe that has ever been posted here. Congratulations !
Marty
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RE: The Hypocracy on This Site.
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by Buzztail1 on March 27, 2011
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This thread has been ended.
Any further responses will be duly removed regardless of content.
I apologize that I am unable to remove the content entirely.
R/
Karl
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