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Naja oxiana venom potency
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by RedGKS on April 23, 2012
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If N. philippinensis is the most venomous Naja spp. with a LD50 of 0.20 mg/kg (Brown, 1973) and N. oxiana has an LD50 of 0.40 mg/kg (Brown, 1973) does that make N. oxiana one of the most venomous cobras in the world?
For comparison, N. naja has an LD50 of 0.80 mg/kg (Brown, 1973), N. atra is at 0.53 mg/kg (Snakes of Medical Importance: Venom and Toxins Research Group), N. nivea at 0.72 mg/kg (Dr. Fry), N. haje at 1.15 (Brown, 1973).
B. annulata and B. christyi are said to be very toxic, but not enough research has been done on them so I am leaving them out.
Are island bound cobras more venomous than mainland cobras? N. philippinensis is an island bound cobra. So are N. samarensis, N. sputatrix, N. sagittifera, and N. sumatrana.
What do you guys think? I doubt that there are any other cobras more venomous than N. oxiana besides N. philippinensis, but that's just my guess.
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RE: Naja oxiana venom potency
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by Atheris333 on April 23, 2012
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Im pretty sure you meant to type N .annulata. Seeing as how it is Naja not Boulengerina, but alas I am not a taxonomic expert by any means. Im not sure what you mean about "not enough research," maybe you can explain. But as far as I know Naja christyi and annulata are the most toxic according to subcutaneous LD50.
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RE: Naja oxiana venom potency
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by RedGKS on April 23, 2012
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Yeah, but exactly how many studies has been done with their venom? Truth is not much is known about their venom. Meanwhile, many studies have been done on other cobra venoms. How many specimens did they catch to arrive at their SC LD50 value? Do you even know it?
N. Christyi is something like 0.12 and N. annulata is 0.14 mg/kg. That is the only numbers I've seen on these 2 species.
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RE: Naja oxiana venom potency
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by Atheris333 on April 23, 2012
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I see your point, but if I could, I will quote what you said in your own words " Cobra venom seems to be very stable in terms of toxicity - different studies generally get similar LD50 values."
Which I tend to agree with..
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RE: Naja oxiana venom potency
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by RedGKS on April 23, 2012
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I said that? When?
But yes, it is true. However, I just would like to see more data on the two water cobras before I claim that they are the most venomous. You know black mamba venom LD50 data varies from 0.05 mg/kg (Zug et al, 1996) to 0.28 (Spawls & Branch) to 0.32 mg/kg. So I'll I'm saying is that I am not going to claim them to be most venomous after seeing one set of data.
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RE: Naja oxiana venom potency
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by Atheris333 on April 23, 2012
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Which seems to hold true throughout the Dendroapsis.. but not Naja.
Just playing devil's advocate here, I would like to see more data too.
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RE: Naja oxiana venom potency
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by choppergreg74 on April 23, 2012
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I cant stand all this Which is the most toxic"? Stuff. First of all LD50 is on rodents. Humans react diffrent. Next Its like when people compare Guns. 44 or 22. I would not want to be shot by either. In fact a 22 can be more deadly as it can bounce around in the body destroying vital organs. Same deal with snake venom, and where you are bitten. Ex a vein or intramuscular, subcutaneous, etc. I would not want to be bitten by Naja annulata or Aspidelaps lubricus. What we should be asking is where are the Naja oxiana? Cause I sure would love a pair. There were quite a few around a few years back when hots were in their peak. Any way Im just busting chops and fooling around with you guys. Hope noone takes offense. :)
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RE: Naja oxiana venom potency
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by najasuphan on April 24, 2012
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Isn't this pretty much the same question that you posted a couple of months ago?
http://www.venomousreptiles.org/forums/Experts/52196
Anyways, in this abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1814007) it says that the venoms of Naja annulata annulata and Naja christyi were the most toxic of all of the African proteroglyphs that had been tested so far so somebody has obviously done research on their venom. That leaves them as not only the most toxic cobra in Africa, but also the most toxic elapid in Africa so far according to this. The only way that you're going to know the answer to what your asking is to actually talk to all of the people who have done the work on these venoms or become a researcher and do it yourself. Not trying to be a jerk or anything but this is virtually the exact same question that you asked a couple months ago.
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RE: Naja oxiana venom potency
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by LarryDFishel on April 24, 2012
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>>Dead is dead. One won't make you any deader than the other.
Well, yes, dead is dead. But in the immortal words of Miracle Max, "there's a big difference between almost dead and all dead..." A half-hearted bite or a bite from a small specimen might make you "almost dead" with one species and "all dead" with another. In that case you could argue that there's a big difference...
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