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RE: Panacur/Flagyl dosage for Crotalus horridus
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by agkistrodude on July 19, 2014
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Hard to say for sure without a fecal, but the Panacur won't hurt the snake. The Flagyl is also weekly. Maybe you didn't continue the treatment long enough and it came back? 19 days without eating wouldn't concern me too much, I've had snakes that only ate 4 or 5 times a year and never had a problem. I'd watch for other signs. Sometimes a good soak in luke warm water will produce a bowel movement if you haven't tried that. Keep us posted, Marty
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RE: Panacur/Flagyl dosage for Crotalus horridus
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by Nakita on July 19, 2014
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Thanks for the replies!
I did not start treatment for internal parasites since the general thoughts were to wait to see if a problem arises.
Marty,
I have read that they often eat only 6-12 times the entire year in the wild, however my only prior experience with horridus involved CB animals that would eat like clockwork, to the point of obesity if allowed. I think that is why this little fellow's lack of a feeding response has me concerned, since my experience with WC animals is quite limited.
At any rate, I have the enclosure covered with a towel and I am going to leave the animal alone for a week before attempting again. I also have some small African Soft Furred Rats on the way which I will be trying as well. Hopefully, time and a more natural smelling prey item will do the trick.
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RE: Panacur/Flagyl dosage for Crotalus horridus
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by Nakita on July 19, 2014
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That's just it.
I'm not sure if there is a problem or not. To me, not eating in close to 3 weeks is a problem, however the more people I talk to, the more it sounds like it might just be a matter of waiting and leaving it be.
Does 309 grams for a 2 1/2ft snake sound about right?
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RE: Panacur/Flagyl dosage for Crotalus horridus
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by BobH on July 20, 2014
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Sounds like you set up is good and covering the cage should greatly reduce the stress especially if its not using the hides (this is a little strange in itself). This snake should eat. Give it 4-5 day break and try a live mouse if you have it, if not a warm freeze-thawed. If you do dead, leave it overnight. Sometime the like "ripe" ones better than fresh. Keep us updated.
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RE: Panacur/Flagyl dosage for Crotalus horridus
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by choppergreg74 on July 20, 2014
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The issue can also be. It's a female and add she's gravid and will drop sometime in August. Also depending where the snake is from depend what they eat. By this I mean I've heard of timbers only feeding on chipmunks. You may need to look for a fresh road killed chipmunk. Then start scenting. This is why it's better to leave the timbers in the wild and look for captive ones. I've been working with them legally for many years. They are also quite arboreal and will hang in trees. Try a f/t chick warmed up.
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RE: Panacur/Flagyl dosage for Crotalus horridus
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by choppergreg74 on July 20, 2014
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After reading the first post and other posts again. There is a good possibility it's a female. And my be gravid. Especially if it has eaten and not pooped yet. Also they will refuse food several weeks prior to dropping babies. I would leave the snake alone for a little while
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RE: Panacur/Flagyl dosage for Crotalus horridus
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by Nakita on July 20, 2014
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Thank you again for the replies and suggestions gentlemen!
Greg,
The thought of being gravid never crossed my mind since the snake is so small. As mentioned, it is approximately 2 1/2ft and has 5 sections on its rattle, including the original button. In my estimations, that only puts it at about 2 years old. Seems a bit young to be sexually mature, but I certainly could be wrong.
You mentioned legality in your post and I don't believe that this was aimed at me, however I do want to mention that where I live we are allowed 5 individuals (excluding the coastal population of "Canebrakes").
I did try a chick which was refused, however I have more and will continue to try various prey as the weeks progress. I have high hopes for the Aftrican Soft Furred Rats based on what I have read about their ability to get a stubborn feeder to start eating.
Once again, thank you all for taking the time to respond, and hopefully I'll be able to report some good news in a week.
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RE: Panacur/Flagyl dosage for Crotalus horridus
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by choppergreg74 on July 20, 2014
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Sorry it was not ment yo be pointed at you at all. My female is 7 years old and only about 30 inches and not as thick as a golfball. I had her since a hatchling. You would be surprised how young live bearing snakes can produce. About 10 years ago I had a female C. Macros (big eyed treeviper) copulated at 11 months old and drop 7 perfect babies 8 months later making her only 1.5 years old. I was amazed. She was no fatter or longer than a pencil??? The truth is we don't know enough about certain species even as hobbyists or scientists. If you have a female and it's her first litter they can even be slugs. Only time will tell. But the whole thing about snakes needing to be 3 years to breed or needing to be hibernated just does not sit right with me from years of experience. If all snakes in the wild had to wait 3 years to reach breeding size. There would probably be a lot less snakes in the world due to predators. Remember these are only my opinions and observations. I could be completely wrong. Also timbers from more southern areas like Vergina have a much shorter hibernating period than timbers from the N.Y. Mountians where August evenings can get into the mid 30 degree temps. Funny in another post I spoke about Italian wall lizard in N.Y. I could not believe my eyes on December 15th I saw 2 sunning themselves on my parents front cement flower box and it was 40 degrees out. Any way I got off topic. Something I am good at. It must be because I have no one to talk reptiles too in my house. They just tune me out Lol. Thanks
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RE: Panacur/Flagyl dosage for Crotalus horridus
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by agkistrodude on July 21, 2014
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I just re-read all the posts. Somewhere I got focused on treating a problem instead of thinking about it being a W/C snake and you were basically just trying to figure out if there was a problem. Sounds like your doing the right stuff. Stress can be a huge factor to a W/C snake. 309 grams does not sound too light to me. Possibly being gravid is a good call, I hadn't thought of that, and you'll know soon enough. I've got a rescue that didn't eat until I offered it a chipmunk that my wife's cat brought to the house. I laid it in front of it's hide and came back a couple hours later and it was gone. I did that a couple of times, as the cat brings them regularly, now it eats F/T rats, but I still feed it the same way. Keep us posted, Marty
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