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Conservation
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by Phobos on March 22, 2004
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I get very irritated seeing lot of ads for WC reptiles mostly on Kinksnake.com. How do other members feel about the selling or collecting of wild caught snakes? A breeder must start with something and have enough of a gene pool to keep a healthy CB program going, so this is not what I am refering to. It's field collecting for selling that bothers me.
It is my opinion that they are under enough stress as a species because of habitat distruction without adding the reduction of the population by over collecting. It is just a matter of time before we start to see extintion of wild populations.
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RE: Conservation
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by tj on March 22, 2004
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It p!sses me off as well (almost as much as the venomoid ads), especially when you see species like pygmy rattlesnakes and copperheads that are readily captive bred. Kingsnake.com doesn't believe in conservation or what's best for the animals, they only care about the bucks they make. It is America, but I find it a bit of a hypocracy. I was recently kicked out for extending my "views" too much. I do frequent to see how much chatter is going on. From what I see, the hot boards are getting pretty slow. As far as the dealers are concerned, I try not to give any business to people who sell primarily wc or venomoid animals. There are very few people I buy from, the person I like to work with the best recently got out of hots, so only have a handful of people to choose from. There are way more people out there breeding snakes, don't limit yourself to kingsnake.com, look around.
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RE: Conservation
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by Snakeman1982 on March 22, 2004
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I am in total agreement with you guys. I cannot stand the "herp industry" section that takes wild animals out of their environment for profit and no species benefit. It is really disgusting!!!
I don't mind captive bred leopard geckos, corn snakes, ball pythons, etc... as long as they are taken care of properly. But wild animals should not be kept for a persons amusement.
Herpers are suppose to truly love reptiles and amphibians yet many of these herpetoculturists are helping out with their demise. And if it weren't for non-scientific field collecting, those of us who don't collect and just want to take photographs of the reptiles and amphibians, wouldn't get harassed and hastled by game wardens and wildlife managers who think we are there to exploit.
Robert Jadin
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RE: Conservation
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by Nakita on March 23, 2004
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Keep in mind that the Leopard Geckos, Bearded Dragons, Corn Snakes that are so common today are ALL decendants from wild caught animals.
In this day and age when rarely seen animals are becoming increasingly more available it becomes a necessity to collect and establish enough animals to provide a viable genetic genepool to ensure the species longterm well being.
In addition many of us choose to work with rare animals that are being exploited to the point of extinction in their own homeland. The harsh reality is that many times the only way to ensure the survival of many species is to remove animals from the wild in order to establish assurance colonies for future generations to enjoy.
In no way do I support commercial exploitation of any species however I am also careful not to condemn the notion that taking an animal from the wild for your personal collection is wrong. I personally think that many people take a greater joy in the animals they keep when they can associate the fond memories of the day every time they view the animal. Also knowing the exact locale of the animal can often become quite handy when breeding the animals is the ultimate goal.
As far as not agreeing with the keeping of wild animals for personal pleasure, the bottom line is that regardless of C.B. or wildcaught they are still "wild" animals that do not have the cerebral capacity to become truly domesticated and are many times just as difficult to maintain successfully as their wildcaught counterparts.
Just ask the guy from Seigfried and Roy if C.B. means domesticated LOL!
Just my ramblings
Jackie
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RE: Conservation
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by Phobos on March 23, 2004
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Jackie:
We seem to be on the same page of music. See my original thread.
1) It's okay to have a breeding stock with enough genetic variance to keep the captive population healthy. Yes, you do have to start somewhere with at least one WC pair.
2)I don't deny someone collecting a wild specimen on their own.
3) Seigfried & Roy are essentially "free handling" and everybody knows that is a "roll" of the dice. One day your gonna get tagged.
With that said, let me try to be a bit more specific.
He is an example of what bothers me: Bitis seems to be a widely kept species. At the Lancaster show this past weekend and on many breeders websites there are always CB neonates available. With such an abundance for sale why and the heck is somebody importing specimens from Africa depleting the wild population?
This is part that I feel is just wrong and short sited. If we truly have a "love" for these reptiles and have a deep respect for all of reptilia should we not also have a strong position on their conservation.
Best,
Al
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RE: Conservation
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by tj on March 23, 2004
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With such
an abundance for sale why and the heck is somebody importing
specimens from Africa depleting the wild population?
It's simple. Someone can pay a few dollars for an imported wild-caught, then sell it for 5 or 10 times what they paid for it. You would be surprised to see exactly how cheap people get imported snakes for, especially from places like Africa, Costa Rica, and parts of Asia.
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RE: Conservation
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by Phobos on March 23, 2004
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Of course TJ, money is the motovation for many of the evils of mankind and this is no exception. The basic point is how do we stop it, if indeed as a society/group we have "conservation" as part of our mission statement? Well the obvious is: hit them in the pocketbook! Don't buy WC animals, period. I've seem several species I would like for my collection, however I did not BUY them because they are WC snakes. I will wait till I can find what I want and under terms I personally can live with, even if I have to spend more. If others followed suit maybe this would slow the depletion of natural occuring snake populations.
Best,
Al
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RE: Conservation
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by tj on March 23, 2004
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You hit the nail on the head. If you refer to my first post, I also said I wouldn't buy wild-caught animals
(unless it was a pair of rare animals that could be used for breeding), or from people who sell mostly wild-caught animals. I feel like I'm doing my part, but a problem does arise. At some point all the wild-caught animals will be sold as cb because many people, if not all, can't tell the difference. I would wager that there are a large number of snakes being sold as cb, when in fact they were wild-caught. The best thing I can say to do is buy from established BREEDERS. When I say this, I don't mean the people in the classifieds that are doing it as a business. Find someone who breeds snakes FOR THE LOVE OF BREEDING SNAKES, not for the love of hearing the register ring. Someone who does it as a hobby, not as an "occupation". They ARE out there.
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RE: Conservation
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by Phobos on March 24, 2004
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Great! I would love to support as many hobbists as possible. I will put my email address below to hear directly who you currently suggest I use.
I really don't want to stop there...we as a society could and should do as much as we can ( society officers please take notice).
Thanks,
Al
cactusgrower@earthlink.net
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