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RE: immunity
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by Phobos on April 19, 2004
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Guy's this is a very good debate. I image that any individual could be overwhelmed by a large dose of venom by any species, even there own. I submit that bites from minor scurmishes have little or no effect. This would be a somewhat simple experiment to create and leave us with a feeling for self immunity level in Hot snakes. In Minton's "Venom Diseases" he describes the use of "Octalony Plates" (Sorry but I am not at home and don't have references available") These agar plates have a central well and a few others at different points of the compass. If you put blood serum from any snake in the central well and venom from the same snake in one well (as a control). Then put venom from another snake of the same species in another well. Finally fill the remaining wells with venom from snakes of the same genus but different species.
What happens after incubation is the agar clouds in bands somewhere (depending on diffusion rates)in between the central well and the wells along the points of the compass. The intensity of the bands indicate the amount of immunity that serum has against the venom.
The would answer the questions we are debating with some scientific certainty.
I have the lab and supplies but don't have serum or venom. If anyone want to give it a go...contact me.
Best,
Al
BTW: Try to avoid using "Anonymous" to post your views. It in my mind it diminishes the statements (and posters)creditability. If your point is factually wrong...no big deal...learn from it and move on...we all make mistakes.
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RE: immunity
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by tj on April 20, 2004
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I have a question. If snakes gets bitten by a snakes of the same species, can it have an allergic reaction...anaphylaxis? HeHe.
-tj
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RE: immunity
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by tj on April 20, 2004
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That was supposed to read, if a snake gets bitten by a snake of the same species. It's what I get for trying to be funny.
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RE: immunity
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by Phobos on April 21, 2004
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TJ:
I would imagine it would be possible, envenomation introduces non-native protein to the host. Transplants are + matched very carefully to prevent rejection, a related immune response. Some women can't have intercourse because they are allergic to the proteins in semen and go into shock. That very dangerous "one eyed trouser snake" strikes again.
Best,
Al
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RE: immunity
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by Chance on April 22, 2004
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Obviously nearly instantaneous swelling is not due to a bacterial infection, but rather the effects of the venom in a localized area. Bacteria do not multiply anywhere nearly quick enough to cause the kind of symptoms my female kaouthia exhibited when she was bitten by my male. They also wouldn't cause the massive swelling MsTT's haje exhibited. Therefore, they are, to some degree, affected by venom from their own species. Of course they aren't affected much, but a little, nonetheless.
-Chance
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RE: immunity
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by Bothrops_pictus on April 23, 2004
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A professor of mine once told me that he was breeding Bothrops atrox and one of those began envenomating his own brothers and eating them after he and other one began eating the same mouse and the bigger swallowed the smaller after the mouse. I don't know if it was all because of the venom, but certainly it would help a lot, considering that they were all the same size aprox.
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RE: immunity
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Anonymous post on April 23, 2004
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How many brothers did the professor have?? Did they get treatment?
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