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Cross-breeding Eastern Diamonbacks and Timbers
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by CottonmouthKyle on June 9, 2004
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Has anyone heard of anyone breeding eastern diamondback and timber rattlers together and coming up with a new snake? I heard it somewhere but I cant remember where.
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RE: Cross-breeding Eastern Diamonbacks and Timbers
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by timberrattlesnake89 on June 9, 2004
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I have seen cross-breeding of timber and eastern diamondback. It is possible. I dont know any name for it though probally it would be named timber and eastern diamnodback cross-breed. I have seen western diamondback and eastern diamondback cross-breed. Also several other speices of vipers too. Like coperheads and cottonmouths cross-breeded. The timber and eastern cross-breeds in the wild are very rare but many have been done in Zoos.
Hope this helps
Phillip
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RE: Cross-breeding Eastern Diamonbacks and Timbers
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by timberrattlesnake89 on June 9, 2004
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Also,
If you look in the book called- Rattlesnake : Portrait of a Predator. It shows a cross-breed of timber and eastern diamondback and also shows a cross-breed of eastern daimondback and western diamondback.
Phillip
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RE: Cross-breeding Eastern Diamonbacks and Timbers
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by Phobos on June 9, 2004
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Kyle & Phillip:
I just want to voice my opinion on x breeding and in-breeding to get some desired results.
Just because you can...does not mean you should. If the creator intended for these animals to mate there would be plenty to find in the wild.
As for inbreeding any animal, not just snakes, to develop a blood line with the "trait" you desire is goes against the creators intention and also brings out bad "traits" as well as the one your looking for. For instance: Look at the mess most breeds of domestic dogs are in these days. Bad hips, bad nasal passages, digestive problems, bad spines...etc.. All in the name of generating a "designer" canine.
Even the best intentions can have disasterious results; Suffering animals.
Have fun & enjoy but think about the big picture too.
Best,
Al
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RE: Cross-breeding Eastern Diamonbacks and Timbers
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by RepFan on June 9, 2004
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Kyle,
I have heard of as well as seen crosses of E.D.B.s. The following link is of a E.D.B. and Cane cross. http://members.aol.com/Mckin700/ATRA/gallery.htm
Later,
Todd
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RE: Cross-breeding Eastern Diamonbacks and Timbers
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by timberrattlesnake89 on June 9, 2004
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Al,
I just wanted to say is that cross-breeding does happen in the wild and the same is for inbreeding. Now cross-breeding is not as serious as inbreeding. You are right about the inperfect genes of inbreeding in animals even including humans. There is nothing wrong with cross-breeding as long as they could occur natully. I have seen one kingsnke have thrre diferent speices combined into one and there is many cross-breeding in herpoculture. I think there is nothing wrong with cross-breeding snake that may occur natully.
Phillip
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RE: Cross-breeding Eastern Diamonbacks and Timbers
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by stopgetinpopped on June 9, 2004
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I have 8 unintentionally bred Eastern Diamondbacks and Timber crosses.( the parents were exhibited together )not expressing an opinion on Hybrid snakes, just answering the initial question.
Best Regards,
TaPhillip
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RE: Cross-breeding Eastern Diamonbacks and Timbers
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by Chance on June 10, 2004
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This is certainly not meant to start a war on this subject, and heaven knows it can happen, but I too do not see any major problem with hybridizing, whether it occurs naturally or not. The subject of whether occurs in nature or not is null and void in captivity. Nothing that snakes goes through in captivity is the same as it does in nature. Breeding for desireable traits is something humans have been practicing on other species for a very, very long time. It's just something we do. I believe that if done responsibly, hybridization is fine. There is of course always the danger of having some of the offspring get into the wrong hands and be sold as one or the other pure species. However, to any discerning person, a cross could be easily recognized. I myself have had a project in mind for quite some time that I would like to do. I believe it would be scientifically fascinating, as well as possibly beneficial, to cross certain species.
In my situation, I would like to take a completely evolved spitting Naja and cross it with a completely evolved nonspitting Naja. By completely evolved, I'm referring strictly to those species who aren't known to "spit occasionally," such as N. kaouthia and N. atra. For instance, take N. nigricollis and cross it with N. haje. Logic dictates that the babies should be some sort of mixture of spitting and nonspitting individuals. It would be interesting to observe what ratio of the offspring spit, which could thus indicate which parental genes are stronger. It would also be interesting to see of all the offspring, how the fang has formed. Is the opening more toward the very bottom for the nonspitters or somewhere in between? More toward the front for the spitters or somewhere in between?
Anyway, that's my justification. I only agree with it if it's done responsibly and there is some end in mind. That being said, I do like Mardi's cross between the cottonmouth and copperhead simply because of their looks. I think it would be fascinating to be able to sit back and raise an animal like that and see how its personality develops, as well as its physical attributes. Of course another problem that comes into play with venomous species is how the venom types will mix and the subsequent treatment of a bite from the individual. But since the snakes have to be pretty closely related to be able to reproduce, both species tend to be neutralized by the same AV, and therefore the resulting mixed offspring should as well. Neat subject though. Too bad there's so much controversy surrounding it and not enough cool-headed talk.
-Chance
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RE: Cross-breeding Eastern Diamonbacks and Timbers
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by kidcobra on June 11, 2004
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how can u say that hybridizing is responsible? or can be done responsibly? when u cross a snake with another one ther bloodline is permanently ruined. i talked to a guy at a show here in fl. he keeps burms and indian pythons. he crosses them cuz he can get more money. the end result is that the cites I Indian is ruined forever. some cross w/ ceylon (pimbura) too. what about gaboon X rhino crosses? Those occur in the wild, but do we want to encourage the production of such "mules"? Forever because of the one breeding the animals cannot be bred with anything else to make pure bloodlines. those babies forever shouldn't be bred either. if u breed baby gaboon rhinos back to a gaboon or other...the babys will still be more hybrids......and those babys will be hybrids....and those babys will be hybrids..it goes on and on.
inbreeding stuff is different. u have some that aren't as healthy cuz they are lacking genetic stability, but you can still breed pure specimens.
i thinks before you pursue anymore projects you should get your taipans out of those fish aquariums and put them in something safer. that would be a good project....having safe and secure housing for the most dangerous snakes in the world huh? neat idea. after reading all the posts on this site i think u should buy some av for those taipans too. that is expensive stuff. i don't keep venomous yet, but i will one day. i will move to maimi or ft lauderdale. that way i will be close to the bank if anything happens. i dont want to buy my own.
i know you all think oh yes young kid thinks he knows it all. i am new here. i think thesw points make sense it is just good idea. ooooo yes
jason
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RE: Cross-breeding Eastern Diamonbacks and Timbers
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by elapidking81 on June 12, 2004
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i personally would not cross but i dont feel that in captivity it would hurt any thing people cross reptiles and other animals with no ill effects so what ever floats your boat and to add it does happen in the wild so the captive effects cant be that dramatic.
shane
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