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First snake?
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Anonymous post on September 29, 2004
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Why does everyone suggest a copperhead as a first-timers snake. In my experience these snakes are very runny and can be quite aggresive. I know the venom is not that lethal but what is a inexperienced handler going to do if the snakes falls off the hook at his/her feet. These snakes can be difficult to handle w/even the proper tools. I personally suggest something like a Crotalus l. lepidus. These snakes are easy to care for and handle(w/tools). The bite can be nasty but if you do things responsibly that should not be an issue. People who start wanting to handle their snakes are the ones that get bit. In reality you should never have to put your hands on a venomous snake unless it needs doctoring, which can be safely performed by tubing the snake. Any others med. needs should be left to the professionals. I know there are a lot of people keeping venomous snakes just for that...to keep. Maybe we can be more helpful on this forum to beginners. You too were beginners once. Everyone has to start somewhere!!!
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RE: First snake?
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by Scootertrash on September 29, 2004
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I believe coppers are the best for beginners because beginners are the one's most often bitten and if that should occur, they will live. Experienced keepers also get bitten so the possibility of being bitten should be an "issue" to all of us, beginners and experienced. Example, I know a gentleman that is experienced and never freehandles but has had accidents before. This is just my two cents.
Clayton
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RE: First snake?
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by Joy on September 29, 2004
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Does anyone here adhere to the philosophy of getting a VERY aggressive Non-Venomous snake and handling it as if hot to prepare for owning a hot snake?
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RE: First snake?
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by Crotalus_Catcher on September 29, 2004
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DEFINATLY! I'm still a youngin,' only 21, but I spent most of my life working with Diamondback Water Snakes, which I treated as venomous, becasue they leave some NASTY bites. Especially when they're 4-5 feet long. I believe that working them prepared me for moving up to hots. I recomend ANYONE wanting a hot work with an EXTREMELY aggressive snake before hand, give it 6 months without getting bit, and then start reading up on hots.
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RE: First snake?
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by Phobos on September 29, 2004
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I've been catching Copperheads since 1972. I feel they are a very good starter Hot snakes. I've never had a bad time handling them; rattlers absolutely. Crotalus l. lepidus can give a very serious bite compared to A. contortrix. I can see no logic to your opinnion or points. Snakes don't always behave and stay on your hook. I've had and continue to have hots end on the floor at my feet. Most of the bites end up on the hands or arms of handlers, not on their feet or legs.
Venomous snakes should never be confused with a "pet" to be messed with for no reason. The less you have to interact with them the safer you are. Besides, the less you mess with them the less stressed they are and the better they do in captivity.
Yes, I started with aggressive water snakes and black racers before moving on to copperheads.
Al
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RE: First snake?
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by sceniccityreptiles on September 29, 2004
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It has been you experience that they can be aggressive? I would like you to tell us more about your experience? I have never seen any North American snake be aggressive. All I have seen will run when given the opportunity. The copperhead is the best starter snake for North American keepers because: It has the least propensity to envenomate of all North American vipers. It has the shorter fangs in proportion to body size. It has the mildest venom of all North American venomous. And finally, and most important, the proper anti-venom is more available then any other species.
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RE: First snake?
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by ianb on September 30, 2004
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I agree with all above in the last comment, but don't they use Profab for all US pitviper bites or perhaps different rattlesnakes with neurotoxins require additional antivenoms?
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RE: First snake?
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by ianb on September 30, 2004
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I've kept to copperheads and the biggest problem I've seen is getting neonates feeding. I would not recommend any copperhead that is not an established feeder as a first hot.
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RE: First snake?
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by AquaHerp on September 30, 2004
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Starter Hots has always been a funny topic. It always rides on the assumption that "well if they get bit...." I've also had many of my new keeprs make comments about copperheads and some other snakes as being "non-lethal" almost as if they thought they could be more lax around them. Number one, a copperhead has caused fatailities, it's rare, but it is a reality nonetheless. Number two, there is nothing cool about losing a finger or other body part and being permanantly disfigured from a snakebite. So the little copperhead, while it probably won't kill you, is still an animal to be taken very seriously indeed. Dr. Sherman Minton Jr., one of the worlds most renowned herpetologists and venom experts, who handled every type of venomous snake known to science, took his worst snakebite ever from a 10 inch Northen copperhead!
Technically, one should handle a copperhead no different that they would handle a diamondback, so the power of the punch is not what should be the be-all end-all determining factor in beginning hot snake selection. But, it does make sense that something with a lower propensity to make one dead should be on the list for beginning venomous snakes.
I normally suggest that someone have some real experience with the less docile non-venomous snakes like water snakes, Texas rats and so on to get a feel for how to read snakes and how to move accordingly. Then move on to the rear-fanged, not boomslangs of course, but Boiga and the like to work a better feel for it. Then on to the pit vipers, with the copperhead certainly being near the top of this list.
As far as copperheads being agressive, I have seen countless in the forest and they can be quite snappy when they want to be. But like most snakes, it's an individual thing. Kind of like walking up on timbers or westerns. Most just lay there and look at you, while a few will pull up into that classic defensive coil and put on quite the show. Copperheads are no different. But overall, wild caughts can be somewhat problematic. Some are a real pain to get feeding and the parasite load is often fairly heavy as well. Both points that make it a precarious situation for a new handler. And, some can indeed be prone to snap generously and not ride the hook at all, again making it a difficult snake for a beginner. Then again, so can any snake really. I have always held that new handlers should have someone they can learn from and be mentored by. Different people handle different types of snakes better than others. An eylash viper may be the perfect starter for one, while the copperhead the better for the next guy. But a blanket statement of "this snake is the best" is not really a sound recommendation at all. Each to his/her own.
Now as far as the other statement about copperheads being the least likely to envenomate....I don't quite get that one. From the Mid-western states on East, the copperheads cause the highest incident of legitimate snakebite incidents. The same anti-venene available for copperheads is available for timber rattlers, cottonmouths, pygmy rattlers, massasauga rattlers and so on... I've never held that any snake is agressive, although many will defend themselves agressivly. Yet, I would rank the irratability of the copperhead right up there with most other vipers I've worked with in the field. While doing my timber research I worried more about accidentally putting my hands next to a copperhead far more than accidentally next to a timber (incidentally I got nailed by I timber in that same fashion, and I still hold that mindset). Now, perhaps the shorter fangs and all, referred to being handled with gloves and the like. And in that event, maybe so. But as far as one being more prone to bite and envenomate you over another...a hot snake is a hot snake is a hot snake. Forget or disregeard that little tidbit and you'll be well on your way to some seriously bad times ahead.
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RE: First snake?
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by ALA_herp31 on September 30, 2004
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AquaHerp...I agree with you .....when you start pooting a beter less aggresive tag on a snake, you are just making the posabilaty of a bit higher.....so as fare as im conserned we should treat all hots as hots, why do you think we call them hots .......if a copper bites you odds are your gone loose a finger or even a hand....so why give one snake the best to keep handle...when thare are others just as low in toxsicaty.....thanks happy herping Wally......plzzz excuse my spelling ...i think some words are spelt rong.
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