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RE: interbreeding cobras
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by ALA_herp31 on December 18, 2004
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I agree with Doug and Anonymous, its a practice that will screw up the natural genetics of the animals. I say keep them natural and if your gone breed do it to help keep them the way you find them in the wild. A lot of the Spicies that are used in this cross-breeding are rare in the wild as it is. So why try and make their genetic diversaty even more rare. I guess I just like to see a Snake in its natural color. Just the opinion of a consernd herper..........Be safe ya'll, happy herping Wally
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RE: interbreeding cobras
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by CFoley on December 18, 2004
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If N. naja x O. hannah = dinner time
then
O. hannah x O. hannah = dinner time....that doesnt make alot of sense.
If the animals are relatively close in size, and cycled PROPERLY, there should not be cannibalism.
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RE: interbreeding cobras
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by CFoley on December 18, 2004
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I thought I posted this earlier after my first post...I dont know where it went, or why I didnt....
I once read that O. hannah could possibly be classified as Naja, even though they were not, which makes me wonder if they could be cross bred. I do not support the idea by any means, but now Im just plain curious.
Chris
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wrong
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Anonymous post on December 18, 2004
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If the two snakes are close to the same approximate size then we still have the same conflict. What Ophiophagus do you know of that are sexually mature at 6-7ft?
Your largest mature male Naja paired w/ your smallest, sexually mature female O. hannah is still gonna be dinner.
Once again. Naja X Ophiophagus = Dinner
Since it's all hypothetical, I'm just playing along....
if we used a male O. hannah, and a female Naja....the risk of Dystocia would become the new problem. I dare say this physically could not happen.
A second guess provokes suspicion viewing the colubrid classifieds on kingsnake.com. Pituophis X Lampropeltis hybrids?
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RE: wrong
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by Snake17 on December 19, 2004
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In a pet shop in Athens, greece I saw lots of hibrids for sale: Elaphe X Lampropeltis, Panterophis X Lampropeltis, Pituophis X Lampropeltis, not to mention all the inter-genus hibrids Lampropeltis sp1 X Lampropeltis sp2. I realy do belive it`s impossible to combine Naja X Ophophagus.
P.S.:anyone seen that King Cobra movie ?
They had a 30 ft Ophiophagus hannah X Crotalus adamanteus that ate several people a day and shed it`s skin dayly, it spat venom and hat huge fangs and Naja naja markings on the back. Oh...it could hear...I laughed my ass off...:))))))))))))
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RE: interbreeding cobras
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by Phobos on December 19, 2004
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I have to agree with Doug & "the Phantom" I am not a bit interested in Crosses or Morphs. I like them in their basic form.
Just because you can, does not mean you should!
Al
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RE: interbreeding cobras
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by Buzztail1 on December 19, 2004
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Hmmmm
It IS possible to interbreed certain species of cobras (Naja X Naja).
It probably is not possible to "naturally" interbreed King Cobras with any other cobra.
King Cobras will indeed eat other King Cobras that are not similar in size. At least they said so in the National Geographic special I watched ;-)
There are several Lampropeltis X Pituophis available commercially as well as Lampropeltis X Elaphe (Pantherophis). It MAY be possible for an Ophiophagus X Naja "artificial insemination" breeding to work.
Certainly not something I would ever wish to see but that alone doesn't make it impossible.
Karl
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RE: interbreeding cobras
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by Chance on December 19, 2004
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The thought that size and eating habits could prevent someone from hybridizing two species of snakes is probably a little off base. If that were the case, then any species of ophiophagous snake, not just THE Ophiophagus, would more often eat their mates than not (are we talking about snakes here, or spiders?). We've all seen the numerous Lampropeltis x whatever hybrids in classifieds and in person. I've put together two kingsnakes before of the exact same species that hadn't evidently been cycled completely, and they attacked each other. BUT, when cycled and ready to breed, typical responces can be turned off. Otherwise, any large female kingsnake would make a meal out of any approaching smaller male. Same would go, I imagine, with king cobras. Male snakes can almost always breed much sooner than females. And there have been many times where quite small males have bred with very large females. Just take a look at many of the arboreal viperid species, where the male is naturally half or even less the size of the female. So to me, the thought of putting a properly cycled sexually mature female king with maybe a N. haje, N. melanoleuca, or other large Naja species, would probably result in copulation or at least attempted copulation, rather than lunch. Of course, I've never hybridized kings before, so this is all just speculation (much like everyone else). The simple fact though that snake eaters can 'turn off' their urges in order to breed with others of the same species or even other species that they may sometimes consume (king x corn?) should be enough to consider that this situation certainly could be possible. Now as far as how close the genetics are to produce viable eggs and fertile offspring, that's a whole other round of speculation. My guess though is that it would probably work. Fertility may be something like that of breeding a retic to a burm, but some offspring would probably be produced. I remember not too terribly long ago, a certain dealer in FL advertising a N. kaouthia x N. atra hybrid. Whether it was a true hybrid or just an aberrant kaouthia is up to speculation, but it certainly did look "hybridy." So if those two proven snake eaters (though admittedly they are not *quite* the level of snake eater a king is) could interbreed, again I imagine kings could.
-Chance
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RE: interbreeding cobras
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by CFoley on December 20, 2004
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It is actually possible for a king to be mature at 6-7ft...Look at Ray Hunters Dwarves...Not a normal king, but still O. hannah.
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Morphs and Hybrids
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by Joy on December 20, 2004
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First let me say, I hate to disagree with so many people with opinions I truly respect.
However, I believe we are comparing proverbial apples and oranges here. Yes, they are both fruits, but it’s a little more complicated to eat an orange, and they don’t taste anything alike.
I can’t think of anything more gorgeous than a Gaboon, or a mamba, or a cobra. In their natural state, these animals are intoxicating. However, few keepers are equipped to tackle captive husbandry of venomous snakes: only the elite. In other words, ya’ll!
For the rest of us, there are many beautiful snakes to keep, but nothing so stunning or fascinating as a Diamondback. Perhaps we are guilty of making our own excitement. In the grand scheme of things, how many “albino” corn snakes escape into the wild to vigorously compete with the wild populations? Not many, I would wager. And these little oddities are fascinating and non-threatening to most people. They are fine little ambassadors to the general public for all reptiles. Sadly, some may die from improper husbandry, but most anyone can care for a corn snake. I honestly believe more dogs and cats are mistreated than snakes. And the fancy price tags on such morphs insures the animal at least some measure of care. Yes, milk snakes, king snakes, and some boids are being breed for color and pattern morphs, but again, I do not believe this is in any way a threat to the natural populations. Eventually there may be more than enough color morphs to please everyone, and no more animals will be imported or captured wild.
And hybrids are fascinating! Personally, genetics and taxonomy of snakes thrills me, and to see what MAY cross is intriguing. It doesn’t mean it SHOULD be done, but it is a curiosity. Again, these animals are so expensive they will cared for and never threaten wild populations. Most are readily recognized as hybrids. And breeders are proud of their cleaver manipulations and want to be compensated accordingly, so these genetic freaks will not be muddying the gene pools (with the exception of Australian carpet pythons!)
As a side note, I believe crossing corns and kings requires cycling a breeding pair of each and tricking the snakes that are to mate. They don’t respond to the other species pheromones. Cobra genus crosses could be similar?
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