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RE: Off the "hook"
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by AquaHerp on July 5, 2005
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I have always found it amusing that the founder of the "snake handling" movement here in the States was himself killed by a Timber rattlesnake bite recieved during a sermon. So, as a follower I'd have to be thinking to myself...hmmmmmmm........
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RE: Off the "hook"
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by biff on July 5, 2005
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First I would like to say I don't condone freehandling...it seems very risky in any context...
I did find it amusing, however, when someone said "To say someone should be able to do what they wish(when it is harmful to them or others) because of religious belief is ignorant as well" .
Especially when we (herpers), as a whole, believe that we should be lawfully allowed to put ourselves in harm's way (and possibly others) AND not even because of a religious belief, but just because we want to. Now I know we are talking about freehandling here, but let's face it, even a responsible keeper is more in harm's way than someone who doesn't keep at all. And of course there is always the possibility of an escape that could put others in danger...no matter how secure your caging and/or room, a natural disaster like a hurricane, tornado, earthquake, or even a fire could set some dangerous captives free.
I guess my point in quoting the other poster was this: he is using the same logic a legislator would use when banning the keeping of venomous reptiles...i.e. that someone shouldn't be allowed to do something that endangers themselves esp. when a possibility exists (even though very remote) that someone else may also be hurt...when there is no legitimate purpose for doing so...(and i think you could spend a lot of time talking to convince any public official of any degree of legitimacy).
Now, for the disclaimer: I am not affiliated with any of these churches, and I do support private keeping of hot herps, I think if a person wants to put themselves (and not zoos whose av has been used) in some degree of danger that is their business. I am not a fan of an organized group of people making laws to save me from myself.
nothing personal here, just some observations from the posts so far, and, of course, this is just my opinion...
Steve
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RE: Off the "hook"
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by Dadee on July 5, 2005
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Gee, now I'm wondering if I should have said anything at all. Well, it's done now and I only hope that someone reads this forum thread prior to attempting this feat.
See y'all,
Matt
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RE: Off the "hook"
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by ALA_herp31 on July 5, 2005
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This discussion could go on for the next 6 months and nothing would be accomplished. If you decide to pick a Venomous Snake up with your Bare Hands you probably deserve to have the bite. I will go on record saying that Free-handing is a very stupid and ignorant practice, and I do not think we should place their Habits in with Responsible Handlers. I in no way believe that our Government should have the right to say what we can do with our own Privet Lives, in a lot of Countries, this could be called Communism. When the Law Makers think that they have to protect us poor fools from ourselves, things start to get scary. How would you like to not be able to walk out of your own Home because the Law says a Tree mite fall on you. Them saying that we cant take care of our own bodies, is like saying they own us. I am not trying to be a ass here, but keep this in mind. If you want the Government breathing down your neck, go ahead, but as for me, I can take care of myself just fine. By the way, I was a Free-hander at one time, this practice almost cost me my life. Had a close call with a Naja haje. When this happened, it made me think how stupid I was to think I could handle this Snake like a lot of Corn Snake. If you think you are invincible, you are wrong, sooner or later you will feel the Sting that Kills you........................................Be safe ya’ll, happy herping Wally
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RE: Off the "hook"
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by tommyboy on July 5, 2005
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1) Dont attack an individual. Well I guess blindly standing by while our rights are taken away everyday because of these "individuals" is the way to go. They can continue posting pics and freehandling their animals all they want but we cant point them out...makes sense. Oh, I guess that means the whole post attacking Harrison will now be deleted since it is in violation?!
2) Dont attack a religion. Again, I guess we should "praise" these people for their backwards thinking and practices which puts our rights in jeopardy. If a religion can be used as an excuse for these practices then it should be allowed to come under question and criticism as well.
3) true
4) true
5) Act like responsible adults. Maybe that should be directed at the folks that continue these practices. I think responsible keepers being fed up with this crap and going on the offensive is long overdue.
Now if you dont like what I post then remove it. Its obvious that this organization is not doing anything to stop or punish this behavior and therefore is only becoming part of the problem. If you feel like this is aimed at you then it probably is.
Tom Eason
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RE: Off the "hook"
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by bush_viper17 on July 5, 2005
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No, your wrong. He said nothing about us praising them. He just said dont act childish and dont get things started to dont need to be. He doesnt let anyone post pics freehandling. WE all know that. Grow up and quit arguing with teenagers on the net.
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RE: Off the "hook"
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by fizzbob7 on July 5, 2005
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<He doesnt let anyone post pics freehandling.>
.........and the below would be what in his profile?
http://www.venomousreptiles.org/data/profile/snakehunter/photo.jpeg
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RE: Off the "hook"
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by elapidking81 on July 5, 2005
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well I just seen the pic and get off it guys I think alot of use have done that wether we like to admit it or not, is it because he is doing it out of religion, and not science is that whats bothering you. this man has the most powerfull thing backing him the BIBLE. Realize it, accept it and Read it.
shane
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RE: Off the "hook"
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by Buzztail1 on July 5, 2005
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Several responses at once, so please bear with me as I try to address everyone's concerns.
Tom, you don't know me well enough to say that I blindly stand by and let anyone do anything. I never said that you couldn't point out that freehandling is not a good thing. I said that you can't attack people on this website, for which I bear some responsibility. Oh, and by the way, I was at sea defending your right to have your say during the whole Jim Harrison thread or I probably would have called him on the phone and asked him man to man about it rather than whine and complain on a website about somebody else's actions. I think the thread was childish and could have been cleared up by a simple phone call but, I wasn't here. We all complain about how the press misquotes us and misrepresents what we actually said or meant but we fail to allow that that might be exactly the case with someone else. I will not be removing the thread as it is already fait accomplis.
Not attacking someone's religious beliefs is not the same as praising them. This country was founded on the belief that people should be free to practice their religion as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. Religious freehandlers have been freehandling for much longer than anyone here can remember and they haven't been able to legislate them out of existence. I say, let them be.
As for acting like responsible adults, you may have missed that was not a request. We are responsible for this website and I will keep it open as an educational portal and not an attack people over personal beliefs site. Feel free to start your own site for that. Don't presume to direct the actions of the SHHS.
"Its obvious that this organization is not doing anything to stop or punish this behavior and therefore is only becoming part of the problem. If you feel like this is aimed at you then it probably is." You are right. I guess you just came right to the forum page and started complaining instead of reading our mission statements. There is nothing in there that gives us the right or responsibility to punish anyone. They make for interesting reading and can be found on the nav bar at the left under "About the SHHS."
Jeremy, thanks for the support but not all actually true. If you go back through your emails, you will see that I don't tell people that they CAN'T post freehandling pics. I strongly discourage it because it does not meet the intent of our mission statements. I don't approve pictures of freehandling that people try to upload to the picture albums but have no actual control over profile pictures other than to ask people to change them. About the rest, you are right.
To all concerned,
And this would be a profile pic that I haven't had the time to ask spomeone to change yet. I don't know about you guys that come in here and complain all day, but I work a real job and do this for enjoyment at the end of my workday. Thanks for making it so enjoyable.
http://www.venomousreptiles.org/data/profile/snakehunter/photo.jpeg
Shane, really?
Not helping here!
I can honestly say that I have never had the slightest inclination towards freehandling a venomous snake in my almost 30 years of keeping, catching, photographing, etc of venomous snakes. So, no, not all of us.
I do agree that people that freehandle out of honest religious beliefs are an entirely different issue than the people we see freehandling in the venomous community today. BUT, that does not make them any better prepared to deal with a Puff Adder than you or I.
"Realize it, accept it and Read it." This is not the place for that kind of admonition, however well intentioned.
Karl H. Betz
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