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Care sheets and fatality rates
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by BREEZER on April 22, 2002
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Hi all, i am just looking for care sheets for white lip tree vipers!!!!! I would also like to know if they are potensially dangerous or fatal??? If any body has any experiance with these beautiful snakes , I would like to hear of them!! thx
Quintin (breezer))
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RE: Care sheets and fatality rates
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by cottonmouth on April 22, 2002
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Breezer, they are very dangerous, and deadly. The only good thing is that they can't put much venom in you,but it is tissue damaging venom and could be bad news. Jeff Q va
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RE: Care sheets and fatality rates
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by Naja_oxiana on April 22, 2002
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Hi Quinton,
There are three antivenoms for the white-lip, I believe. You'll find that te instructions are writen in the native languages of the countries where they're produced. I believe that there are english translations out there, though.
I couldn't tell you exactly how dangerous they are, but the fact that there is a specific antivenom tells me that there are enough bites to make av production cost effective.
Cheers
Roger
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RE: Care sheets and fatality rates
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by TAIPAN78 on April 23, 2002
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Hello,
T.abolabris should not at all be under estimated!! I have seen some females that were cottonmouth size, with a head twice as wide and fangs that riviled a gaboon!!! These snakes have very large fangs, in comparison to their bodies, posibly the largest in the world and huge venom glands which are more then capable of inflicting a disfigureing or even fatal bite.
Also, from the limited experince I have with handleing white lips, they are alot more capable of climbing the hooks quickly and can be a dangerous pain if your not experinced handleing tree vipers.
Basicly, I consider trims(white lips included)the mambas of the tree viper world(white lips being the Eastern greens and Mangrove PVs being the blks!!)and one should take steps before contempalteing getting one. Eyelash vipers are probally the best venomous stater for they USUALY are rather calm on a hook and do not again USALY show the speed and burst that the Trims can. Also, bushvipers(Atheris)are about on par wth eyelash as far as the way they hook and handle but their is no AV produced for their bites and some sp I belive are capable of inflicting a fatal bite so i would sway away from them aswell. Botherechis(eyelash)are covered under Wythe AV and though they are capable of really ruining your week/month, you are much more likely to recive appropriate treatment incase the worst happens.
Well, I hope this helps.
Good luck and be safe!
Later,
Jeremy
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I don't agree
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by IGULFAST on April 23, 2002
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I don't consider myself as a "expert" in any way but i feel i should write something here since i have kept this species a long time now.
T.albolabris is a very common hot herp in captivity here in sweden. T.a was one of the first hots i started out with (the third to be exact)and since they are interesting and beautiful snakes I still have some T.a:s in my collection. I think they are quite easy to keep (compared to other arboreal PV:s)i have never had any big problems with my individals (except for the obvious feedingproblems with the new-borns)
If you have experience with keeping hots and want to start with arboreal PV:s, I think T.a is a good species to start with (if you buy a adult or sub-adult CB). DON'T TRY THIS SPECIES IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY PREVIOUS "HOTS" EXPERIENCE.
Yes, they are quite agressive (read, heat-sensative) but i think they are quite predicable in their behaviour.
Yes, sometimes they try to climb the hook but what arboreal PV don't do that occasionally? That is why you always should use two hooks.
Yes, they have large fangs, just like most other arboreal snakes that prey on birds. I don't really matter, you should not get near that end of the snake anyway. Don't try to handle it with just gloves.
Yes, they are quite heavy built for a arboreal PV but if they are as bulky as a gaboon they are severly obese (read, FAT). My largest female is about 90 cm and only about 5-6 cm wide.
I think you are excaggerating about their venom. Fatalaties from bites of this species have occured but but are very rare. I talked to a man who suffered from a bite from a sub-adult female. He had alot of swelling and some blisters but no major and permanent effects. But he also said it was the most painful thing he had ever experienced and it lasted for several days. He sold all his venomous snakes...
This link takes you to a good caresheet (venom info) about T.a http:/www.kingsnake.com/treeviper/
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RE: I don't agree
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by TAIPAN78 on April 23, 2002
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Hello,
Once I get my book back, "The Clinical Handbook of Toxicology, animal venoms and poisons" I will site a few paragraphs with regards to abolabris envenomations which definatey disagree with your statement. Though not as potent as some of the other sp of Trims, they have killed people over the years and caused many serious envenomations. Though this will not always be the case, you can not judge all white lip evenomation or any snakes envenomings for that matter on just a few accounts. I too have a freind who was tagged by a white lip, a neo while force feeding and though it didnt seriously hurt him it did ruin his week! This of cource was too somebody who didnt experince any adverse reactions to the venom but it could be a very different stroy for somebody else.
As for handleing, though yours may be puppy dog tame and truthfully, most I have seen were as well, not all will be and I have ran into a few that would make ya sweat bullets, no matter much experince handleing arboreals you have!! Now I know any sp of snake can have the odd, unusal acting specimens that goes aginst everything the text books say but one would be much better off dealing with a wigged out eyelash then a pissed off white lip, anyday! The trims simply have more pyshical capabilities!
Also, even if they are all the easiest hots to keep hands down, the whole AV issue must be taken into consideration and when it comes to white lips here in the US, AV is not redily availble and if you need it, well, you may be screwed! On the other hand, as I suggested, Bothrechis AV, or atleast av that covers them can be found within the country, even though it will probally cost ya a fortune but atleast you have a good chance of reciveing the correct treatmenbnt!
One last reason I do not see white lips as a good starter, as you mentioned, is the whole feeding baby thing. Ive had freinds who got the point were they would try to feed the babies once, then force feed all of em untill they got going because of how pointless it is trying to tease em. Obviously, getting a sub adult/adult will help you with this problem but then you have a formidable snakes instead of a small one that you can grow with and learn all of its personality quirks.
If thinking of steping into arboreals hots, one should look elsewere for a starter instead of any of the sp im the genus Trimereserus, IMHO
Just my 2 cent, for what its worth.
Later,
Jeremy
P.S The cottonmouth statement in my last post was true!! A freind of mine had a mutant sized, 3 ft white lip female that was simply gigantic!! I belive some photos of that snake can be seen on the photo ablum of this page if your interested. they would have been posted by York Morgan.
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RE: I don't agree
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by IGULFAST on April 23, 2002
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OK i never wrote that T.a was uncapable of serious envenomations. T.a. are dangerous animals and a bite are a serious threat to your health (and possibly your life) and should be handled with respect. Death's from bites have and do occur from both the T.a and the eyelash (though they are more common from the white-lip). The same book as you mention also states that the fatality rates for T.a in its native countries are very low.
T.a:s are not a snake for a beginner hotherper. But since they are so common here in sweden many people keep them as their first arboreal hot (some even have them as their first hot herp). Almost all T.a:s here are CB:s (what is the point of buying a $100 WC when u can get a adult CB for $50). The eylash are still fairly rare in captivity here and the AV for both T.a and eyelash is available.
My individuals (and any i have encountered) are defenitly NOT puppy-dog tame. T.a is a aggressive species and it will strike at anything hot near them. Predictability dont mean that they are "nice and friendly", it means that are always aggressive. They WILL strike at anything near them, They WILL defend themselves if cornered. Also i don't think i have ever sen a dry bite from any of my specimens.
I'm not stupid, i know that everey sp have individuals that don't behave like the others (i have a "insane" V. r. raddei, almost impossible to hook).
Sorry, i didn't know anything about the AV sutuiation for T.a. in the U.S. -If it's not available than don't get this species.
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RE: Av in the US
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by Naja_oxiana on April 24, 2002
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It's not so much that it isn't availible. I can guarentee that there are zoos and perhaps a few other places that have av coverign the white-lip. That being said, it must be imported and the instructions are likely to be in CHinese or Taiwanese or in whatever the native language of the producing country happens to be.
So basically you can have the antivenom but you could just as likely die or have just that much worse of an envenomation while your doctor is fumbling through the instructions tryign to figure out what, exactly, those little symboles mean. The other thing to think about are the g-neg bacterial infections that tend to come from snakebites can be nastier than the actual envenomation.
Cheers
Roger
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RE: Care sheets and fatality rates
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by static416 on August 25, 2005
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I'm going to be picking up a juvenile T. albolabris in a couple days as my first hot. I'm very surprised to hear people talking about how dangerous these things are. I was under the impression that they are one of the least dangerous snakes in terms of bites. I have a medical study conducted in Thailand that said that 90% of the time they don't even give antivenin because your better off just riding out the swelling and pain than risking taking the antivenin. In most cases they said the patient was discharged either the same day or maybe kept overnight for observation.
It also said that they haven't recorded a direct death (a couple from secondary infection) from that snake in Thailand in the last 12 years that accurate records have been kept. And the one that I handled (with two hooks of course) was very docile and easy to manipulate.
I may be wrong, I'll try to post the link to the document I'm talking about, but most of the stuff I've read has said that due to the very very low venom yields, and small size, this a relatively "safe" snake. Moreso than a Eyelash, from what I've read.
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