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looking for naja kaouthia info
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by Venomjunkie on April 5, 2006
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i was wondering if anyone can recommend any web sites, care sheets, books, or tell me their personal experiences with this species. i know it will be a LONG way off until i even think about aquiring one, but id still like to do a little research on them now. i have heard that they can be a good "beginner" COBRA (not hot), but i have made up my mind that i will go no further than a monocled cobra as far as elapids go. for some reason i think keeping any species of cobra would be a lot harder than keeping a lot of the vipers. cobras just seem to be so much faster and more alert than vipers. im not saying vipers arent going to be a challenge, but i think ill be able to handle most of them a lot easier than i will a cobra.
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RE: looking for naja kaouthia info
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by captiveherps on April 5, 2006
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They would be a terrible "starter cobra". Most African cobra's are easier to deal with than Asian cobra's.
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RE: looking for naja kaouthia info
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by Venomjunkie on April 5, 2006
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thats strange because ive always heard the complete opposite. most people say stay away from the african species until you are used to dealing with the asian species.
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RE: looking for naja kaouthia info
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by thenewdisciple on April 5, 2006
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i think a best first cobra varies from snake to snake. some kaouthias are psycho, others are laid back. the most laid back cobra ive ever had the pleasure of keeping was a banded egyptian, but on the other hand ive seen some pyschotic individuals of that species as well.
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RE: looking for naja kaouthia info
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by hoyta on April 5, 2006
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actually,the most laid back cobra i ever had was an albino monacled. after that was a black pak...
on another note,the craziest i've had was a cape,which i only had for 3 days! the thing is,(whoever said it was right) its the individual snake most of the time... a buddy of mine had a huge moncaled that always went ballistic!
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RE: looking for naja kaouthia info
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by Cro on April 5, 2006
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I once kept a kaouthia that was very laid back and a real pleasure to work with. I have seen others that were just nasty tempered and not much fun at all. As the others have stated, it is very possible that individual snakes will have different temperments. This could be caused by how well they were cared for and possibly by fear that the keeper had of the animal. Some snakes seem able to sense if the keeper is afraid or nervious, and will act differently because of this. JohnZ
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RE: looking for naja kaouthia info
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by 23bms on April 5, 2006
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A few thoughts on the subject:
1. All snakes are individuals. They don't know "the rules" and behave however they want. They also have their moods. One day, a C. atrox may be totally placid and indifferent. The next day (or an hour later) the same snake may be a nut case.
2. The behavioral observations of the previous owner may not hold true once the animal has been dragged out of its accustomed environment, bounced around in a vehicle and then dumped into the totally alien environment of your cage and facility.
3. The best way to learn is to work with an experienced keeper who has some "problem" animals. If you can get some supervised experience with a worst case scenario or two, the less problematic individuals become ... relatively ... easy. Try this before you buy. It will really help.
Over the years, I've had numerous African and Asian cobras of various species. Behaviorally, each species has been all over the chart. To Hell with the "rules." Idiosyncracies are the norm. The only generalization I can come up with is, "Active and alert." (As opposed to, say, the Bitis "norm" of, "SEEMINGLY TORPID but VERY VERY ALERT." ... With, sort of, exceptions ... Of course ...)
In conclusion, it's a toss up. Just don't start with a spitter. There are enough variables without tossing that ingredient into the stew.
jrb
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RE: looking for naja kaouthia info
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by Rabies on April 5, 2006
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Hi
if you feel as if your ready for a cobra, then all I would recommend is purchase a yearling. As it grow's, so does your experience with that perticular animal. Saves wrestling with a 4ft+ animal for the first time.
John
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RE: looking for naja kaouthia info
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by hoyta on April 5, 2006
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great advice,john!! also,watch someone who has a cobra,and learn how they work with it.i swear,if glen pointe hadn't been the mentor he is to me,i would have been bit along time ago! i will say that albino monacled was one of my favorite snakes of all time!
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RE: looking for naja kaouthia info
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by redbird on April 6, 2006
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I realize that personal opinions vary - but I will share mine...
I would not start with a spitter - of any type.
I would not start with an african of any type except aspidelaps (small, fiesty... typical cobra behavior patterns - but generally not considered as lethal - although anaphylactic reactions to animal venom proteins - and antivenins administered by well-intentioned physicians - can always be lethal).
True, some banded egyptians have the reputation of being lethargic, reluctant strikers. History has proven with the death of at least one well-known Canadian herper that these snakes can suprise you - and leave you dead before an ambulance arrives.
My experience with forest cobras, snouteds and honeycomb egyptians is that they are quick, aggressive, prone to drop to the ground and pursue you, and almost always attack with an open mouth, intent on envenomation - no bluffs or dry bites.
Asian cobras (common spectacles, monocles & black pakistan spectacles)generally (as I said GENERALLY) present what I consider to be predictably aggressive behavior. They hood up, stand their ground, with period attempts to retreat. They are usually easy to control by manipulating their visual focus, i.e., by waving a hook or hand in a specific direction (well out of strike range) that will cause them to hood, stand their ground and follow movement. Rarely have I had them leave this behavior pattern, drop to the ground and come after me. If they do drop, it is usually to escape. They tend to be slow, clumsy strikers from the hooded position and many times will bluff - striking with a closed mouth to encourage you to leave them alone. Let me stress this fact...NONE OF THESE PREDICTABLE BEHAVIORS CAN BE COUNTED ON IN YOUR HUSBANDRY ROUTINE!! I do not mention them so that you may become lax in your techniques and count on predictable responses. My sole point is this: I personally find these responses easier to deal with, with more margin for error, than an african cobra gliding directly at me with mouth wide open.
I also suggest that you start with neonates, building your skills as they mature - but, neonates have special handling dangers. Tailing a 12" - 16" snake cannot be done without putting your hands unreasonably near the business end of the snakes. And yes, at least one experienced herper (Grace Olive Wiley)died as a result of a finger bite from a baby black pak - cute but deadly. Also remember what you are risking with each snake species and it's particular venom cocktail. Koauthia venom can attack tissue and nerves - make sure you know EXACTLY what you are risking with these cute little babies. Use a trap box or (my favorite) a jumbo ice scoop for cage transfers on neonates - never more than one per enclosure. Restraining tubes can be tricky on neonates.
Ask yourself - how will you remove a bad shed or assist feed a snake...adult or neonate? Trust me - these procedures are not for the faint of heart with cobras (unless you are simply too dumb to appreciate the danger).
Always wear boots and heavy jeans in your hot room. Yes, I used to just go in wearing whatever I had on - to include shorts or sandals, until I had a 7' honeycomb egyptian chase me around the room, trying to attack my bare feet. This may worry some cobra keepers, but I also (in appropriate situations) use gloves when working with elapids (especially neonates). This method is commonly used in european collections, but it does have dangers and drawbacks - the biggest being a false reliability on the gloves. You lose a great deal of tactile sense - the snakes can move or escape within your grasp - and strike at an exposed forearm or worse (chest, neck, face). You can get used to small fangs not piercing thick leather - until the occasion when they finally do it.
For adult snakes, no glove - to include kevlar lined - can be considered fool-proof. In his own tests on the Midwest Tongs gloves, internationally recognized venom expert Brian Frye found that a kaouthia could eventually (in 40 - 90 seconds) penetrate them. The deal is this - the gloves would have saved your butt during the first bite, and only an idiot would let the snake just keep gnawing on your hand until it punctures the glove.
How do I advocate the use of gloves? I do use heavy leather gloves to restrain a neonate cobra when I am assist feeding or helping with a bad shed. If the neonate turns in my hand to bite the glove, I reposition it again to prevent chewing. I use very high quality gloves and never DEPEND on them - I try to avoid the snake biting it...it is just one more line of defense.
Do you need to learn how to tail an adult snake and use restraining tubes properly? Absolutely. This should be done under the supervision of an experienced handler. But - it should not be your daily routine just because it is "cool" to do. I am a strong believer in trap boxes and transfer boxes - easier on the snakes, safer for you.
So - after all this rambling, what would I suggest?
Aspidelaps or non-spitting asian cobra neonates - after you have the necessary experience and with a mentor.
All of this is my humble opinion. You are taking your life in your own hands (and possibly your family's - do you have a secure, escape-proof hot room?) The risks are yours - be wise.
Mike
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