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RE: beginner elapids?
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by Rob_Carmichael on June 9, 2006
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Since it sounds like you are not interested in coral cobras or shield nose cobras, I'd be hard pressed to recommend any "beginner" level elapids. Some cobras, like banded egyptians, tend to be much calmer than, say, a monocled, however, these are ONLY for advanced keepers with many years of advanced venomous experience. I personally love coral cobras as they have all of the personality of a large elapid wrapped up in a body that is fairly easy to manage. If you can acquire a coral snake that is weaned on to taking small mice, that would make a pretty neat "entry level" elapid but as in all instances, even these can inflict a fatal bite.
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
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RE: beginner elapids?
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by D-back on June 9, 2006
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thanks for your input. It's not that I am not interested in aspidelaps, I very much am actually, I was just curious as to any others. what about any spitting cobras such as padilla? I know their venom isn't quite as hot as some of the other naja. Also curious about death adders, even though they are VERY hot, I assume they aren't as quick and agressive as some of the larger elapids and they are so cool. I do have several years of venomous experience with hots, mainly crotalus and a few bitis, but I have always had a thing for elapids. Just want to do a bit of research first. thanks
Frank
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RE: beginner elapids?
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by LarryDFishel on June 10, 2006
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Spitters are probably not a good idea. The venom may be milder, but having to deal with the spitting is an extra complication you DON'T need when first learning elapids.
In some ways a death adder may be easier to deal with than some elapids, simply because it won't climb your hook and it doesn't get as large. But it's a (common) mistake to think they are slow or placid. They may look like a viper, but there's a real elapid under the hood that will thrash around on the floor, fling itself out of the cage and strike up at you so hard it leaves the ground.
Like someone else said, it's hard to recommend a "starter elapid". I've worked woth several green mambas that were very easy going and calm 97% of the time and that several people I've trained have handled as their first elapid. But that other 3% can suck bad enough that you don't want to start with one without an experienced handler to back you up.
The best thing, by far, is to get some experience working with someone elses elapids under supervision because you are fairly likely to need bailing out a few times.
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RE: beginner elapids?
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by tj on June 11, 2006
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D-back, if aspidelaps are not what you want, I personally think pallida is the way to go. They are one of the few elapids that, although spitters, won't kill you if you make a mistake. Although a shot to the eye would suck (face shields shouldn't even be a question) and the necrosis wouldn't be fun from a bite.
Good luck with your decision.
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RE: beginner elapids?
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by LarryDFishel on June 11, 2006
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To elaborate a little, here's why I don't reccomend spitters for beginners.
Aside from having one more thing to keep track of, lets say it does manage to hit your eyes...now what do you do? You're new to elapids, you've got venom in your eye and a cobra loose in the room! Do you leave the snake and go wash your eyes before any damage is done, or risk your eyes arguing with a snake that's already giving you trouble. The only hot he's kept before was a pigmy, so I'd be willing to bet he doesn't have a snake room that's secure enough to leave a cobra loose and know it will still be there when he gets back...
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RE: beginner elapids?
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by LarryDFishel on June 11, 2006
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Oops. I see I got this mixed up with another post. Forget what I said about only keeping a pigmy. But he still should at least have a VERY secure snake room before thinking about a spitter.
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RE: beginner elapids?
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by AquaHerp on June 12, 2006
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I have to put in my 2 cents here...again. I love these threads where the debate goes on about a good "starter" snake and someone always tosses in the "it won't kill you" or "it's not as hot as say a...." spiel. When discussing venomous snakes, especially elapids, I can't fathom anyone talking down one snake over another one the "death-ability" scale. Hot is hot folks. Period. And when one begins to place their mindset of handling any hot snake differently based upon how "hot" it is compared to the one next to it, it really concerns me. I see this all the time with the copperheads and younger keepers. "Go ahead and handle it as if it were a bumble-bee kiddo, after all, it aint gonna kill ya." is almost the nonchalant the advice I see dribbling from some keepers. Permanent disfigurement, disability, brain damage, amputation, or yep, even death are all very likely scenarios from many of these "not very hot snakes". So I can't help but wonder where the logic, if any, comes into play when this advice goes out to these novices. If anyone thinks for a second that a bite from a Naja pallida is a walk in the park, especially when I know they don't have a fridge stocked with serum, they best think again. Trust me, I have seen it. There's nothing cool or macho about it. And certainly nothing non-life threatening about it either.
You don't want people getting the impression that they can handle snakes any less so, or afford them any less respect simply because they "aint all that". I have said it a hundred times on here and I am sure I'll say it a hundred more. If I was to ever see one of my crew handling a copperhead with any less attention than say a bushmaster, it's not the snake they'd have to fear! You can't fix stupid.
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RE: beginner elapids?
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by D-back on June 12, 2006
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Aquaherp, Why must you turn this into an argument? Nobody said that a bite from padilla would be a walk in the park, were not stupid. However, I did want to get some input on some of the better starter elapids and I got some good advice. I'm not a beginner, I've kept hots for several years, just not elapids. Would you not agree that a naja padilla would be a better starter elapid than say an inlamd tiapan? Thank you to everybody who had input without talking down to me like I'm some 10 year old child.
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