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Copperhead ??? How Do I ID w/o Markings ???
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by EdVA on April 30, 2007
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Hello to All !
Is this really a picture of a Copperhead, and if so, how can you tell without any markings that I can see ? Also, are those pits on his head, or just his nostrils ?
Thanks !
Ed VA
Pictures are in the Photo Album under EdVA
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RE: Copperhead ??? How Do I ID w/o Markings ???
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by Cro on April 30, 2007
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Ed,
Snakes on very rare occasions are born with abbarent colors and patterns. The chances of finding one of these snakes in the wild is very remote.
The snake in the photo is indeed a Copperhead, and it does have the coppery-brown background color. The darker hourglass like pattern is however missing.
The overall shape of the snake is the same, it has a heavy body, thinner neck, and wide head. This is not as easy to tell with a straight on head shot of a coiled snake though.
You did see the heat-sensitive pits on the side of his face, located between the eye and the nostril. That is why these snakes are called pit-vipers. The nostril is difficult to see in the photo, and is much smaller than the pit, and is located at the end of the nose.
As far as the eye, in the photo it does look the pupil is somewhat round, but that is because the snake was in shade. The "Cat Like Pupil" of a venomous pit-viper will be a narrow vertical slit in bright light, but will dialate wider in darker light to let more light in. If you had a photo from the side, you would be able to see that the pupil is not round, but just a widened elliptical pupil.
You might also note that the Copperhead still has the "rough" looking scales, because these are what are known as "keeled scales." They have a ridge that runs from the front of the scale to the back. This is also found in the rattlesnakes, and in some harmless snakes also, such as water snakes.
I am willing to bet that if you saw other animals such as dogs, cows, horses, etc in silhouette, you would still know what kind of animal they were. Identifying an abbarent patterned snake is similar, as to someone who has worked with a lot os snakes will still see many clues to the animals identification, even if the basic pattern is missing.
Hope this helps.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Copperhead ??? How Do I ID w/o Markings ???
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by LarryDFishel on April 30, 2007
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Ummm... John, I think you may have been trying too hard to see something that isn't there (or you're looking at the wrong photo.)
I can't even find enough photos to say whether it is or isn't (I'm not that familiar with them), but if it is...it's an Australian copperhead (Austrelaps). I think that's what they meant, but it's not clear.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070430/od_nm/brazil_animals_dc_1
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RE: Copperhead ??? How Do I ID w/o Markings ???
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by Crotalusssp on April 30, 2007
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I was going to look at the picture for a while before I posted because I trust John's knowledge, but I do not see a Copperhead in this picture. At least not an Agkistrodon Copperhead. John, I believe you looked at the wrong picture or I am looking at the wrong picture, or most likely a common name was missinterpreted. That is a serious flaw of common names.
Charles
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RE: Copperhead ??? How Do I ID w/o Markings ???
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by Atrox788 on April 30, 2007
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which album is it under? I can tell you for certin with it is The Aussie Copperhead or not.
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RE: Copperhead ??? How Do I ID w/o Markings ???
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by thedude on April 30, 2007
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Thats an aussie copperhead! Some "journalist" probably needed a pic and googled "copperhead" and this snake came up. A lot of journalists these days are worthless!
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RE: Copperhead ??? How Do I ID w/o Markings ???
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by LarryDFishel on April 30, 2007
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That may be, but not necessarily. The story is about a shipment of herps being smuggled into Brazil from Argentina. It sounds like they think it originated somewhere else, but probably not the U.S. For all we know, it may have contained an Austelaps. Although it is obviously a stock photo, not a photo of an actual snake from the shipment, so they could just as easily be completely wrong.
There was a story not long ago (that may have come up here, I don't remember) about a bite by an Australin Brown Snake (Pseudonaja) where the reporter used (probably without permission) the seconds photo (the first was a drawing) that came up on google images when you searched for "brown snake"...which of course was a North American Brown Snake (Storeria).
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RE: Copperhead ??? How Do I ID w/o Markings ???
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by LarryDFishel on April 30, 2007
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Jeremy, the version Ed posted is the last photo under "Snakes For Identification", but if you go to the link I posted above and click on the image, you get a higher resolution version.
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RE: Copperhead ??? How Do I ID w/o Markings ???
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by ALA_snake33 on April 30, 2007
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This Snake is either a Coastal Taipan or an Australian Copperhead, I see no way it could be a North American Species. My biggest bet, is that it is a Taipan. If you take a look at the Coloration around the Jaw area, it screams Coastal Taipan.
Any bets on this possibility?
Be Safe Ya�ll, Happy Herping : Wally
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RE: Copperhead ??? How Do I ID w/o Markings ???
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by Cro on April 30, 2007
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Interesting. After seeing the larger photos posted and the newspaper article, the snake does not look as much like a patternless Texas Copperhead that Ed was talking about from his local paper, and in the larger photos, what looked like a a facial pit could indeed be a nostril. Also, from the original post, there was no information about the Vietnahm / Brazil shipment.
Will be fun to see where this goes when more information becomes available.
Best Regards JohnZ
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