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Crazy question
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by igiveup on December 4, 2007
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i know there are such things as dwarf retics, but is there such a thing as dwarf anacondas? please dont bash the shit out of me, its just a question.
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RE: Crazy question
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by LarryDFishel on December 4, 2007
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I've never heard of such a thing as a "dwarf" anaconda, but do a search on "yellow anaconda" if you're not familiar with them. They are quite a bit smaller that the green anaconda.
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RE: Crazy question
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by Cro on December 4, 2007
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Ron, almost all reptiles can occasionally produce dwarf forms, just as they sometimes produce giants.
I do not know of any dwarf anacondas, however, it would not be surprising if there are some out there.
Dwarfs can result from hormonal problems, or from being raised in too small of a cage and minimal feeding.
The latest issue of Herp Review has photos of a Southern Toad that is about 10 times larger than a normal adult toad. The giant size is attributed to hormonal problems.
I have seen dwarf American Alligators that were 20 years old and only 18 inches in length, and I have seen Prairie Rattlesnakes that were 24 years old and less than 24 inches long. I have a Timber Rattlesnake that I have kept for over 35 years and it is only about 36 inches long, even though it has been fed well and has always eaten well over all of those years.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Crazy question
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by SCatheris on December 4, 2007
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here's a question JohnZ does that affect their health in any way? or is it just that they are smaller than average?
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RE: Crazy question
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by ChuckHurd on December 4, 2007
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how can you come on this site and ask such a crazy question. people like you make me sick. get out of the herp world!!!!
actually, i am only kidding, but i have seen replies something like that to questions alot like yours. never really understood. if you do not know the answer, why say anything?
as your the origional queation: there are 3 reconized dewarfs that i know of, the retic, the burm, and the king cobra. with all 3, they come from an island off the mainland of the native range. since the island is smaller, less food, etc....years of selective breeding has made these animals smaller. there are no anacondas coming off smaller islands, that i know of right now.
if you have been into herps for a while, i am sure you have noticed captive dwarfing of the burm. the burms we imported in the 1980's grew!!!! it wasn't unusual to have an 18 foot female back then. over the years they have been breed for color and temperment, rather then size and we all know they are not growing to the same size these days. i have seen full grown males that were not even 11 feet. we sold a CB baby out of the shop in 1991 and the guy brought it back to us 13 months later and it 10 feet 7 inches. you can't get that from a burm in the year 2007. this is going to also happen with the anacondas if they continue to be breed and re-breed for the pet trade.
as to the second question: the dewarfing cuased over years of genetics, such as the dewarf retic will not shorten the life span. the dewarfing caused by genetic problems in the animal normally does.
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RE: Crazy question
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by Buzztail1 on December 5, 2007
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Interesting observation about the islands, Chuck.
Actually, Bruce Means did a TV special about a smaller race of Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake from some of the cays in the Gulf of Mexico.
That would make four known dwarf races.
Anyone know of any others?
Karl
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RE: Crazy question
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by Rob_Carmichael on December 5, 2007
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Ironically, there's a population of Nerodia sipedon (No' water snakes) on an island 35 miles off shore in the middle of Lake Michigan. This particular population gets absolutely gigantic - 4 to 5 foot nerodia are not uncommon. Same goes for the eastern garters on this island (I caught a 58" specimen two years ago) as well as the northern ringnecks (40"). With little development, excellent habitat, and, a healthy prey population (sculpin making up most of the diet for the Nerodia while frogs make up the garters and red backed salamanders make up the ringnecks and there are tons of them) its no wonder these snake communities gets so large on this island. For the larger constrictors, though, who require larger prey items, it makes perfect sense and over the course of environmental pressures and selective reproduction (survival of the fittest) its easy to see these "dwarf" races popping up.
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
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RE: Crazy question
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by Cro on December 5, 2007
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Justin, as far as I can tell, the health of the dwarf animals was not changed.
They did require smaller food items, and that might be a problem for a dwarf animal in the wild, depending on what type of food resources were available to it.
The dwarf American Alligator took on the heavier body structure of a adult Alligator, with a wider snout, and other features that made it look different from a normal young Alligator of the same length.
Also, in the case of that Prairie Rattlesnake that was dwarfed for about 20 years, it suddenly had a growth spurt, and over the course of one year, it almost doubled in weight and length. Then it stopped growing again. I would guess that some kind of growth hormone must have turned on again for a short time.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Crazy question
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by SCatheris on December 5, 2007
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well we can't forget some "subspecies" of Boa constrictor imperator. the island locales are considered dwarf species too. I have some nicaraguan boas that won't get too big.
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RE: Crazy question
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by Peter on December 5, 2007
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Rob;
You caught a 58" GARTER SNAKE? Good grief! Got a picture? Or was that a typo?
I can imagine the water snakes getting bigger if they are far away from the .22 plinkers...Although Id hate to spend my life eating Sculpin.
Peter
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