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RE: Pennsylvania
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by tj on March 18, 2008
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"There is no rising death toll or frequent accidents reports to support all the bad press Northern Berk's reptile show and the vendors receive."
Not yet, thankfully. There is one vendor, that I know a few in here will know who I'm talking about, that has some type of incident at EVERY show he vends at.
There are some people that need to be banned completely from the shows, before something bad happens. He'll be the one who gets hots banned from Hamburg, it's only a matter of time. It's not just the vendors, but the show organizers that need to police, as well.
And, as a side note. I have yet to see a ANY vendor ask questions about experience or legalities at any show I've attended. Even some of the big names, who I won't mention because they are friends with people in here, will gladly sell to anyone.
The only vendors I've ever seen talk someone out of buying a snake were Mardi Snipes and Rick Krumrine. One, at Rick's table, was a 13 year old, that had his mother (who was standing next to him) convinced copperhead's were harmless. They never purchased the snake. The other, at coastal's table, was a guy who wanted a mexican cantil, but wanted to know if the venom was strong enough to lose a hand. Mardi told him it was strong enough to kill. 'Nuff said on that.
Hamburg is getting to be one of the last strongholds, but if they don't get their sh!t together, it won't be long before it's a non-hot show. Which will lessen the amount of people and have a snowball effect.
Sorry for the bit of rant.
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RE: Pennsylvania
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by Cro on March 18, 2008
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Tom, it sounds like the Organizers of that show need to get a bit more involved, and perhaps set up a Safety Commitee like the Repticon folks have for the Southern shows.
And they should not be afraid to ban a venor from a show if he sets a bad example. I had heard that the vendor you are talking about was going to be banned from the shows, but I guess that has not happened yet.
He has also caused a couple of safety problems at a Southern Show, but they were resolved fairly quickly.
The ides is to not let one bad apple spoil the whole bunch.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Pennsylvania
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by EPARR1 on March 18, 2008
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OK so it went from the Hamburg show as a whole, to vendors, and now it's down to vendor. Which vendor lets get right down to it or if more than one lets put it out there.
Public forum your entitled to your opinion and if you feel a vendor or vendors are ruining the show you should not be afraid to tell us who. The remark above about some of you know who I'm referring to or along those lines probably has everyone thinking of different people and or incidents.
From what I'm told the vendors used to be alot worse selling to anyone who would buy. So the death toll would already be up. I think it's rubish if not you can tell me I told you so down the line. For now I'll stand my ground that the Hamburg show and it's vendors do a great job!
Eric
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RE: Pennsylvania
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by EPARR1 on March 18, 2008
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One more thought putting the vendors on the spot might improve their preformance. Also didn't mean for the above post to sound so harsh not meant that way.
Be Safe
Eric
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RE: Pennsylvania
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by rthom on March 18, 2008
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I agree with EPARR1 if one vendor is the problem if we refuse to buy from him he won't have a reason to show up.If you don't wish to identify him,please email me the vendors name.I don't wish to do business with people such as this.
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RE: Pennsylvania
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by tigers9 on March 19, 2008
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‘yoyoing ‘, if u miss your pet monkey, check out our latest YouTube video:
Exotic Animal Owners Under Attack”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaXVV63UWS8
No hots, but monkeys, apes, small to monster snakes, tapir, big cats, anteater, binturong, turtles, etc…
Z
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RE: Pennsylvania
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by Cro on March 19, 2008
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If someone knows of a "bad egg" at shows, they should report them to the show Administrators, and / or Safety Crew.
And the Administrators / Show Sponcers should follow through and require that person to comply with the regulations, or leave the show.
That is how I sold a lot of Red Vinyl Tape to venomous vendors who did not know about, or had ignored the new rules list, LOL
I know for a fact that The Repticon Team in the SE Shows will crack down on violators, and make them comply with the rules, or they will be removed from the show and not allowed to come back.
That should lead to the public knowing that any snake in a deli cup with red tape is dangerous. It is a great learning thing, as they will also learn that snakes in deli cups with black tape are not dangerous.
Very Simple Education. That way parents will tell their kids to not touch the red deli cupps, if they are in reach.
I also favor the screen nets, that keeps everyone from touching the deli cups. That way, a dealer can choose or not choose to show a venomous snake to a potential customer, and a 7 year old kid can not pick up a deli cup off of a table.
I have seen two instances at shows where snakes sent a fang through a deli cup, and almost caused a bite. Deli cups are fine for display, but not for letting the public to handle. You know those tiny air holes in the deli cup, well, they let the venom of a spitting cobra through !
If you post the name of a nit-whit bad vendor on a web site like this, you are setting yourself up for a law suit from them. What does the scum bag have to loose ?
Instead, go to an administrator of the show, or to the safety administrator, and file a complaint. If we do not police ourselves, we will be policed by the police !
A fellow at the last Atlanta Repticon Show this last month shook my hand, and was very cordial. In the past he brought many snakes to shows in very bad conditions. Sometimes 10 copperheads or timber rattlesnakes in a 10 gallon aquarium. I complained to the safety folks, and they gave him the low - down rules. He changed his ways. He no longer brings aquariums with 10 to 12 snakes in them, and with open screen tops.
The same should be true with the Northern Shows.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Pennsylvania
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by tj on March 23, 2008
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"OK so it went from the Hamburg show as a whole, to vendors, and now it's down to vendor. Which vendor lets get right down to it or if more than one lets put it out there."
As far as selling, it's not just one. Me dropping names won't do anything except give me a headache having to reply to e-mails from the vendors, their friends, and my friends, and it won't stop people from buying from them. People turn a blind eye when it's someone they know.
I did it in the past, it did nothing. As far as doing stupid things, it's just one. The organizers know what has happened in recent shows, what they do with it is up to them. If somone else wants to chime in and drop his name, feel free, I won't. I still get grilled for burning bridges that I don't travel anyway, so it's not worth it to me. He's still a friend to some people I know and I don't want to listen to it.
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RE: Pennsylvania
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by AmyRinOH on March 30, 2008
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Wow Cro- please don't say monkeys shouldn't be kept as pets. Because some don't keep them in a way we consider responsible and keep the committment doesn't mean everyone does it that way. We're fighting a battle against an animal rights agenda- no animal ownership or use- period. I have three macaques that I love dearly. First one from 10 days old, she'll be 13 in October, a sweetheart. Second, got Josh at a year old, whole nuther ballgame, loved just as much as the first, he'll be 12 in May. They're both totally intact except for canines capped on the male. Third was a rehoming, had about a year and a half now, 7 yrs. old, fully intact including canines and a sweetheart.
I believe and stick up for animal research as I know all the human medical advancements made through animal research- not for mine though, not what they were raised for ; )
Some don't keep reptiles, including hots, as some of us would like. The battle isn't choosing whicj animals are permissible to own- it's fighting for the right to own ALL- because the agenda we fight is against ALL.
Off my soapbox now- have read many of your posts and was just thrown back by this one.
Long live YOUR ownership rights, I'll fight for them!
Amy
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RE: Pennsylvania
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by Cro on March 31, 2008
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Amy,
It sounds like you are one of the folks who has the skills and patience and caring that is required to keep primates long term. I think that is great and speaks highly of your ability.
I do worry though that many people fall in love with a cute little monkey, or lynx cub, or other exotic animal, and have no idea what they are getting themselves into long term.
The people who sell these animals should go to great lengths to make sure folks who purchase these animals for pets know what they are getting into. Some merchants do this, however, some do not.
I know there is stringth in numbers if all of the different folks who like exotic animals band togeher. I wonder if this can truely happen though, as it has been my experience that many of these groups do not care about folks who keep other types of animals, as long as they get to keep theirs.
Venomous snake keepers are looked upon as a fringe group by the turtle, lizard, frog, and harmless snake keepers. Most of those folks would quickly sell us out and write us off, as long as they got to keep their pet gecko or turtle.
It is a difficult decision for me to make to support all exotic animal keeping. As far as venomous snake keepers, I would love to see a national standard similar to the mentoring / experience system now in place in Florida that requires documented hours of experience before one can keep venomous snakes. However, I would change it to 500 hours for an apprentice keeper, who would be able to keep animals like native venomous snakes, and 1000 hours for an advanced keeper who wanted to keep the much more dangerous exotic venomous reptiles.
For now, I do support all animal keepers, however, because of my past experience with monkeys, I hold folks who want to keep monkeys as pets at a higher standard than someone who wants to keep something like an parrot. Perhaps some sort of training should be required before folks were allowed to purchase monkeys ? I am sure that you will agree with me that primates are much higher life forms than reptiles, birds, felines, or canines ?
Of course, I guess the same could be said that training should be required before folks could become parents and bring human primates into the world. Bringing a child into the world and raising it is more difficult than caring for a pet monkey or parrot. But kids are in many ways like exotic pets, they have to be fed and watered, kept warm and healthy, and have to be provided with toys a education. Perhaps we should re-classify human kids as Exotic Pets, and solve the problem that way, LOL !
Best Regards JohnZ
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