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Snake ID
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by venomiss on June 24, 2008
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I received 3 photos from someone who identified these snakes as Mojave greens. Because of the location, Modjeska Canyon, in Orange County, California, I did not agree. However, that's the extent of my knowledge!
This area appears to be a burned area from a wildfire last fall. The photos were uploaded into "Photo Album" under snakes for identification. Can anyone ID the species?
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RE: Snake ID
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by Cro on June 24, 2008
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I have approved the photos, and now they are available in the Snakes For Identification Album.
The direct link to the photos is :
http://www.venomousreptiles.org/libraries/showfilepage/6245?offset=87
What do the folks here from the West coast think ???
Best Regards John Z
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RE: Snake ID
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by pitbulllady on June 24, 2008
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Those are Prairie Rattlers, Crotalus viridis. This pic has actually been all over the internet; recently, someone posted this same pic on Kingsnake.com, asking what kind of rattlers those were, claiming the photo was taken near Santa Fe, NM. These pics have shown up on various sites, claiming that the pics were taken in TX, AZ, Wyoming and now CA. Most likely, those pics WERE taken in Wyoming. It's not a recent photo, it's unlikely to have been taken in CA.
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RE: Snake ID
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by toddg on June 24, 2008
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No prairies in Modjeska! Heleris and rubers, maybee even an occasional mithceli but no viridis.
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RE: Snake ID
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by venomiss on June 24, 2008
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PitBullLady is right. They ARE on Kingsnake.com & apparently going around for 3 years!!! http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1539927,1539927.
My apologies. I've been had.
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RE: Snake ID
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by 23bms on June 24, 2008
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Memory may fail me, but I seem to recall that Mojaves are divided into an A and B venom group, one being more neurotoxic than the other. I believe that that the less neuro population is found in and about a broad geographical area centered more or less on Phoenix. The "Green" appellation is really nonsensical as the color varies widely depending on the local habitat.
jrb
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RE: Snake ID
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by puffadder7 on June 24, 2008
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thats true usually all mojave greens have neurotoxic venom then you have texas mojaves that have type a venom too, arizona mojaves usually type b venom,arin
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RE: Snake ID
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by 23bms on June 24, 2008
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Having refreshed my feeble memory, the Type B is the less neurotoxic variant. The population is centered on Phoenix and Tuscon. The type A variant constitutes the remainder of the Mojave range - California, Nevada, Utah, [the remainder of] Arizona, Texas, and New Mexico.
There is a useful article available online at eMedicine entitled, Snake Envenomation, Mohave Rattle." (url: http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic541.htm )
An extract from the article:
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Pathophysiology
Venom A populations of Mohave [sic] rattlesnakes possess Mohave toxin, which has been experimentally shown to induce neurotoxic effects. Mohave toxin or a similar toxin has been detected in the venom of other rattlesnake species. This toxin impairs presynaptic acetylcholine release. Mohave toxin may cause severe neurologic effects clinically, although this presentation has been reported only a few times in the literature. Envenomation by several other species of rattlesnakes has been reported to cause serious neurologic signs and symptoms (eg, severe motor weakness, respiratory difficulty).
Venom A Mohave rattlesnakes cause less local injury and less hemorrhagic/proteolytic effects than other rattlesnakes. In contrast, venom B specimens cause local, proteolytic, and hemorrhagic effects typical of other rattlesnakes. Severe rhabdomyolysis with myoglobinuric renal failure has been reported with Mohave rattlesnake envenomation. This article focuses mainly on envenomation by venom A populations of Mohave rattlesnakes.
Mortality/Morbidity
Mohave toxin is one of the most lethal venom components found in US snakes.
* Venom B populations are less lethal than venom A populations.
* One death has been attributed to a Mohave rattlesnake in the Annual Report of the American Association of Poison Control Centers, although a number of deaths have been documented.
* Most documented deaths are associated with bites in which the bitten individual was intentionally interacting with the snake and when a delay occurred in seeking medical care.
Sex
Males are bitten more commonly than females.
Age
Young adults are most commonly bitten.
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That being said, I will reiterate that the "green" appellation is meaningless. I have four WC Mojaves, two captured within a mile of each other just outside of the greater Phoenix metropolitan area. One is greenish-brown. One is greenish. My CA specimen is decidedly brown. My NM specimen is indistinguishable from the AZ specimens. Given the geography, I rather suspect the AZ pair, in spite of their color, are type B. I also suspect that my Mojave 'Brown' from CA is a type A. I am not willing to put the theory to a self-sacrificial empirical test.
jrb
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