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RE: A question for timber keepers
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by agkistrodonkeeper on September 20, 2008
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I'm sorry I was mistaken on the cages measurements. I have 4 unfinished cages in the garage, all different sizes, and i got measurements mixed up. After I posted the measurements it just didn't seem right to me so I busted out the tape measure. It is actually 2 1/2 ft wide by 2ft 2 inches deep and 22 Inches high.
I knew from the beginning that this would not be a permenant enclosure for the timber. But for right now I had to go with what I had.
Sometime in the near future, I will be building permenant enclosures for ally snakes, cause I'm tired of all my mismatched different size cages.
But anyways, I'm gonna ditch the heat lamp and go with a different lighting setup with a heat pad in the bottom. What would be my best option for some sort of more natural lighting?
Oh and I almost forgot to add that there the enclosure is ventelated by a metal vent on each side. Also, the timber is 2ft 1in. I measured him today.
Anthony
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RE: A question for timber keepers
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by theemojohnm on September 20, 2008
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Anthony,
This may be the ONLY area I'm more adept in than some of the other keepers here. LOL.. =)
I will try to keep this reptile related, as most of my knowledge of lighting properties and specifications are reef-aquarium related.
As of now, not too much is known of how much snakes "require" the appropriate lighting.
Lizards, according to many, benefit more from the proper lighting. Although, alot of snake breeders agree that the right ammount, and correct type of lighting makes their snake "happier" and more inclined to breed. (Of course, this is only a personal observation).
But still, it is almost a universal observation that Timbers love to bask in sunlight. There are a few higher end option to simulate this kind of "natural light", and many more cheaper options that seem to give the same effect, the animals dont seem to mind.
First of all, incandescent lighting (the type of lighting you would use in most household lamps and other lighting fixtures) will give off more heat, which is probably the absolute MAIN reason many snake species bask for extended periods of time (two raise their already cold-blooded body heat). But, most incandescent fixtures/bulbs are fairly limited in providing the correct spectrum to simulate natural sunlight. (With the exception of "metal halide lighting, which burns at much too high a temperature for the enclosure your building, and are the most expensive form of "natural lighting").
Florescent lighting is generally, more flexible in its color spectrum availability, but gives off much less heat, which can be a pro and a con, depending on the enclosure situation, and species.
Generally, 10,000-Kelvin - 14,000-Kelvin is what most accurately simulates natural sunlight. Kelvin is the temperature increment which corresponds to how "hot" a bulb burns. This directly affects the ammount of lumens and color a bulb puts out. I'm trying to keep this as simplistic as possible. You might want to go a little lower on the color spectrum, as the light you will be using will not have to penetrate water, like in an aquarium (which I am taking all of my basic knowledge from). But not much. Usually, this is the basic range to simulate natural sunlight. (10,00k-14,000k).
Basically, any commercial "plant bulbs" or even basic aquarium bulbs will do. But I do recommend you use a higher output bulb, as to maintain a "hot spot" in a reptile cage will be difficult to achieve with a basic florescent tube.
Many models of bulb are available. VHO (Very High Output) bulbs are available but are slightly more expensive than CP (Compact Florescents). MVH or "Mercury Vapor Bulbs" are among the most expensive right now, as they are "cutting edge" in the technology of reef tanks right now.
Stay away from the "red", "orange", and "yellow" portions of the color spectrum, as they have limited penetration. They DO give off the most heat, but I dont feel that is what you need. As many have recommended, your temps are fair enough, if not a little on the high side to start with.
If you can find a plant nursery around you, ask someone there, as the lighting used to grow plants indoors (as well as reef tanks) is the closest to natural light people have been able to replicate so far.
The goal is to create at least a few degree temperature raise over a "basking spot".
Ask for a bulb for growing plants indoors that will give off an increased ammount of heat. (Compact florescent, not "tube" florescents).
Honestly, even the household compact florescents ("white light" florescent"), will do more for your setup, while giving off MUCH less heat and slightly the more appropriate spectrum than the standard "white" incandescent bulbs one would use to light there home.
I assure you the light-bulb section at walMart has a few pretty good options for such a lighting source for fairly cheap. These bulbs generally do not cost too much more than "standard household light bulbs, and they last MUCH longer.
Hope I didn’t confuse you too much.
"Plant Lights" is what you are going for. NO HALIDES! Florescents, the CP (compact florescent bulbs), which thankfully, some, will fit into the same ballast and socket as your existing heat lamp.
Much of this is personal preference, as like I said, not too much is known of how much snakes benefit from lighting. The setups I use are 50/50 bulbs
(50% 14,000k daylight bulbs, and 50% Actinics, the lowest of the violet-blue portion of the color spectrum), as it simulates the natural morning-to midday sunlight.
Any 40w-65w florescent plant bulb you use will be fine, creating the heat you want, with the appropriate color spectrum.
If you are not completely confused, I can elaborate more tomorrow. But for now, I'm extremely tired.
Hope this helps some....
Take Care.
~John.
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RE: A question for timber keepers
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by agkistrodonkeeper on September 20, 2008
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John,
Thanks for the info. I'm pretty sure I understand what you are saying. I'm definatly gonna go get some new lights.
So a compact flourescent bulb will fit into a regular heat lamp right?
And I need to get a 40-65 watt bulb that would be used for growing plants indoors?
Thanks
Anthony
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RE: A question for timber keepers
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by theemojohnm on September 20, 2008
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Anthony,
There are many florescent models that will use the same ballast attachment the incandescent "white" lights use, including standard reptile heat bulbs.
Some people while reading over this will say that a 65w is going to be too hot. But, as most just use the actual HEAT lamp bulbs, this isnt valid.
A 65w "standard" heat lamp bulb will produce probably at least 3 times the heat that a 65w florescent will give off, of ANY color spectrum.
You want a bulb of the correct color spectrum. Just to keep things simple, a "plant bulb".
There are many models available at plant nurseries that are MADE specifically to fit into lamps like basking lamps you would use for a reptile enclosure.
(Of the same type you are using now).
Wattage only refers to how much energy a bulb uses.
These bulbs are the exact same type florescent, that are commonly seen in bathrooms and some kitchen lighting fixtures. The only difference, is that the ones you are looking for are of a different color spectrum.
The reason I recommend plant bulbs is because they most naturally replicate natural sunlight for your needs, and are not nearly as expensive and sophisticated than some of the models used for photosynthesis in a reef aquarium.
As said before though... this is really nothing to stress over, as not much is known of how much snakes benefit from the proper lighting. I will say, it makes them alot "happier" though.
Its just that the color spectrum given off by natural "plant lights" looks like natural sunlight the most, and has many of the same properties.
Honestly, just to cut back on heat, you could use a "white" florescent, the kind that may be found in a bathroom (the small standard socket type, NOT tubes).
Although, if you use a white florescent, the color will not look nearly as good, and will give off more heat. The white fluorescents are tiny bit cheaper and a little easier to find, but most home improvement stores do carry plant bulbs. If you use a "white" fluorescents for your setup, I would only use a single 40w bulb max, as white light is a combination of ALL wavelengths of light, and will give off more heat.
Here is a link to the type of bulb I speak of. I'm sure you will recognize them right away.
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Here is a VERY sophisticated plant light model. YOU DO NOT NEED ANYTHING AS INTENSE or fancy. Just note what the bulb looks like. You’d be able to find a 65w plant bulb for anywhere from $6-$10 at walmart!
http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/lights.shtml#8
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Here is a commercial "white" florescent used in home decor. Again, ONLY note what the bulb looks like.
http://www.1000bulbs.com/40-Watt-Compact-Fluorescents/
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You should be able to find what you need at a local walmart or target, as surprisingly, alot of these store carry such plant-growth bulbs in the lighting section.. ;)
Hope this Helps.
Take Care.
~John.
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RE: A question for timber keepers
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by agkistrodonkeeper on September 22, 2008
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John,
Again,
Thankyou very much. I guess I'll be off to Walmart wednesday to check out some lights. Man I love that place LOL ( sarcastically speaking of course LOL )
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