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Agkistrodon contortrix
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by TheFifthDay on April 6, 2009
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Hey guys, I had a question for you.
One of the snakes I plan on getting once I am experience enough is a copperhead.
I've been looking into the care and the toxicity of their venom for a while.
I just noticed that on toxinology.com it says "Clinical Effects - General: Local Effects: Mild to no pain, mild swelling, no bruising, blistering."
Is this really true? I've seen some pictures of copperhead bites, and they sure don't look this minor.
Just wanting some opinions on this.
Thanks,
Jon Short
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RE: Agkistrodon contortrix
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by pictigaster1 on April 6, 2009
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Jon that is just a lie very very painful swelling can be extreme and necrosis can cost you a finger as it did me.
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RE: Agkistrodon contortrix
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by puffadder7 on April 6, 2009
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well, it all depends on the size of the snake, and how much venom is injected, and where it was injected, the bites are usually minor, but thats not to say they have not resulted in amputations and deaths, but the effects are a little bit worse than you stated, like i said, you would be in a lot more trouble if you were bit by a four foot copper than a twelve inch copper, though not that toxic it will surely ruin your week, arin
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RE: Agkistrodon contortrix
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by Cro on April 6, 2009
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Jon, you must be looking at a different Toxinology.com than I am:
Check out the southern copperhead danger index at:
http://www.toxinology.com/fusebox.cfm?fuseaction=main.snakes.display&id=SN0330
The one I am reading sounds about right, based on the numerous cases of copperhead bites that I have seen over the years.
Looking at the minimal damage a bite can do is meaningless, because there is the chance in any bite that the maximum amount of venom will be injected, that you will be especially sensitive to that venom, or that you will be in circumstances where you cannot reach medical help for many hours, or, if you do make it to a hospital, some nitwhit doctor will give you the wrong treatment.
Prepare and assume the worse when considering the potential danger of any venomous snakes, not the least potential outcome.
Hope this helps.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Agkistrodon contortrix
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by TheFifthDay on April 6, 2009
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On all the copperhead pages on the website the dangerousness index is the same, and they all say the same thing under "Clinical Effects". And that is that there is mild to no pain, mild swelling, no bruising, and blistering.
I've always viewed these as very dangerous levels, and I think that this section of the website can give people the wrong idea.
If you look at the "Clinical Effects" on a false water cobra it says "Local pain, swelling, bruising & bleeding".
This seems inaccurate to me.
I know a false water cobra has the potential to ruin your day.. or even a few days, but this seems to under state the potency of the copperheads.
And John, I am looking at the same toxinology.com as you are. I was originally looking at the Osage copperhead, but I've also looked that some of the others.
Thanks for your input,
Jon Short
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RE: Agkistrodon contortrix
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by Jahon on April 6, 2009
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I believe they only state what normally happens. On local necrosis it also states not likely to occur. Does not mean it can't happen, just that it usually does not. If you look up black widows (Latrodectus mactans) it will also look like they can't do much. However, a black widow bite was the most agonizing thing that has ever happened to me. The doctors told my mom that without treatment my body probably would not have been able to tolerate the pain and I would have gone into shock and died. Is that normal? No, not for adults my size at least. People all have different reaction to different types of venom, Toxinology just states what normally happens.
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RE: Agkistrodon contortrix
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by Cro on April 6, 2009
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Jon, the section titled Clinical Effects is clearly wrong, and should not be followed. They must have confused some other snake when they wrote that section for the copperheads.
Saying that "General: Local Effects
Mild to no pain, mild swelling, no bruising, blistering " is just not accurate at all, as anyone who has recieved a decent bite from a copperhead can attest.
Hopefully, Dr. Fry will read this thread, and perhaps notify the folks at the University of Adelaide so that the data can be updated.
Misleading information about the severity of copperhead bites is unfortunatly often repeated time and time again.
If you Google "Copperhead Bite" you will find articles from this site like:
http://www.venomousreptiles.org/articles/59
and
http://www.venomousreptiles.org/articles/373
These articles give a pretty good indication about how much "fun" a copperhead bite can be.
The unfortunate thing is that that same Google search will also link you to sites that continue to print false and dangerous information about copperhead bites not being dangerous.
A good example of that is:
http://gorp.away.com/gorp/health/snakefaq4.htm
The morons who wrote that state "A single bite from a copperhead is not very dangerous."
Part of the problem is that for years, many well known herpetologists have used terms like "relatively mild" to describe a copperhead bite. This was a mistake, and was often based of repeating information that is not accurate.
I have a four foot male copperhead that will drop a medium rat about two seconds after it bites it. And rats are tough critters. Anybody want to test out the mild bite theory using that copperhead ? I am sure that copperhead would not mind demonstrating a bite, as he is a bit tempermental.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Agkistrodon contortrix
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by codeman on April 6, 2009
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well speaking from personal experience a copperhead bite is VERY bad. Ive heard of them being refered to as "mildly venomous". I really hate that term. I spent the night in the hospital and even with moriphine they gave me the pain was excruciating. I must say I knew a bite would be painful but had no idea just how painful it would be. My finger is fine thankfully but i learned a very hard lesson. Good luck and be careful.
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RE: Agkistrodon contortrix
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by earthguy on April 7, 2009
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Copperheads are 'mildly venomous' like a .22 rifle is 'mildly dangerous'. I've never been shot with a .22, and I never want to, but I know that they can cause death and serious injury so I treat them with the same respect and caution that I would my .30-06. I can say from experience that a copperhead bite,even a 'mild envenomation' can be a serious matter.
Of course this is probably a bad analogy because most people don't treat a .22 with proper respect, IMHO
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