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Are Venomous Snakes Pets ?
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by fbergman31 on January 4, 2011
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This question is not for people who own venom labs or work with hots in some field of study. It is strictly for the private owners who buy hots for their private interest. A friend of mine who is on this site recently sent me a few emails of him and another member who were having a debate on this subject and I found it really interesting. I read the debate and came to the conclusion that venomous snakes held by private owners are pets. This is the convo that was emailed to me:
Drew Gosnell to me
show details 4:34 PM (17 hours ago)
Venomous snakes are not pets.
--- On Mon, 1/3/11, Tommy Blake
Tommy Blake to Drew
show details 5:50 PM (16 hours ago)
So then what do you call the snake in a tank in my house that I feed and take care of ? What word would you use ? Your opinions seem to be I'll founded. I think any animal I buy and domesticate is my pet. Even if it is unconventional and is hard for you to wrap your head around.
Sent from my iPhone
Drew Gosnell to me
show details 6:54 PM (15 hours ago)
You call it what it is: a cobra, specifically Naja kaouthia. A specimen, if you have to put a term to it. And I'm sure Mitch would never have sold one to you if he knew what your intentions for surgery on it were, and that Monocled Cobras make the perfect "pet".And I wouldn't say it's unconventional to "domesticate" a cobra,I would say it's IMPOSSIBLE. There's a saying in herpetology that is so true..."You can take the snake out of the jungle,but you can't take the jungle out of the snake".
tommy blake to Drew
show details 8:09 AM (2 hours ago)
My cobra is a cobra, specifically Naja kaouthia, we all know this, but since it is in a state of captivity rather than a state of nature it is a pet. It certainly isn't a wild animal as that would indicate that it still lives in the wild. Also, it certainly isn't a specimen since the definition of a specimen is, "a portion or quantity of material for use in testing, examination, or study <a urine specimen>" (Merriam Webster). Rather, my snake is a pet since I domesticated it and have it for pleasure and not utility. In fact, the definition of a pet is, "a domesticated animal kept for pleasure rather than utility" (Merriam Webster). So since I keep venomous snakes in captivity for pleasure and not for utility by definition my an animals are pets. This is why I go to, "pet shows" to buy them. Sorry to ruin your little immature fantasy. You seem like a very ignorant person. What do you call your basement your "laboratory" because you keep your "chemistry set" down there ? To address your other ignorant claim, namely that, "I wouldn't say it's unconventional to "domesticate" a cobra, I would say it's IMPOSSIBLE>," and that, "I'm sure Mitch would never have sold one to you if he knew what your intentions for surgery on it were, and that Monocled Cobras make the perfect 'pet'," Then please explain this picture of Mitch holding his pet cobra. Also, if you are going to argue that, "You can take the snake out of the jungle, but you can't take the jungle out of the snake" then please explain why I can also hold my cobra, go over to his tank, pick him up with ease, (he usually doesn't even hood up), and hold him for hours . That sounds like a domesticated animal to me since the definition of domestication is, "to adapt (an animal or plant) to life in intimate association with and to the advantage of humans" (Merriam Webster). Also, if a cobra can't be domesticated then please explain this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahy9duYPmqk. Try not to sound so ignorant this time, oh wait you can't because you just like to live in your little day dream where your snakes are your "specimens".
- Show quoted text -
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So my reasoning is that a venomous snake bought legally and taken home to a private residence where it is cared for in captivity is a pet since the definition of a pet is, "a domesticated animal kept for pleasure rather than utility" and the definition of domestication is," "to adapt (an animal or plant) to life in intimate association with and to the advantage of humans" (Merriam Webster). The interesting thing about this definition is that I take it to mean any snake adapted to living in captivity would be a pet a ball python, corn snake, etc. They don't necessarily have to be friendly. The more important question I believe is "should they be kept in private possession" ? I personally believe if people are to be free they should be able to choose to keep these animals in captivity as long as they understand the risks involved. It is their decision we can't tell people how to live their lives. Are we going to stop bungee jumping, or sky diving, or scuba diving, because these are dangerous activities ? Of course not. So it seems logical then that people should be able to keep venomous snakes as pets. You agree ?
P.S. Mitch referred Tommy to Venomoid Inc. and I am sure he is aware that he is selling his snakes to people who regard them as pets and not "specimens..." lol.
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RE: Are Venomous Snakes Pets ?
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by Existential on January 4, 2011
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This is a discussion of semantics.. there is no clear right answer. The fact that you mention Tommy Blake, and that your profile is not filled out is also cause for concern, but what the hell, I'll bite.
When the average person thinks of a pet, they imagine dogs and cats - a 'companion' animal that they share an emotional bond with.
Most 'domesticated' animals will not bite the hand that feeds it. Many of my snakes would not hesitate to do just that. You can't argue that snakes are domesticated animals. They are simple animals that live by pure instinct. A dog's instinct may be to hump your leg, but you can train him not to, to go against that instinct. You teach your snake tricks like that?
Also, you state that the definition of a pet is, "a domesticated animal kept for pleasure rather than utility." Well, utility is simply having some purpose. Many of us here breed our animals and sell babies. Many of us are fascinated by them, and enjoy learning by observing our animals (the purpose there being learning).
Again, this is a discussion of semantics. I can understand why one would call a snake a pet, but I do not agree.
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RE: Are Venomous Snakes Pets ?
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by fbergman31 on January 4, 2011
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Why is mentioning Tommy a concern ? He probably knows more about snakes than half the people on this site. If it wasn't for him I probably wouldn't even know about this site. In fact, I just signed up because he told me this is a good place to post forums. He seems ok with me why does he have such a bad rap on here ?
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RE: Are Venomous Snakes Pets ?
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by fbergman31 on January 4, 2011
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Also, you may not be able to teach a snake a trick but you can certainly teach it to not attack you and to tolerate being handled. That is the sense in which I mean you can domesticate a snake. It is a matter of semantics but I mean, come on, we own snakes as pets because we enjoy them even if we do breed and sell them. Nothing was better than when my dad brought me home my first milk snake when I was a kid.
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RE: Are Venomous Snakes Pets ?
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by Existential on January 4, 2011
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So people that study snakes or work in venom labs don't enjoy the animals? Enjoying it has nothing to do with whether its a pet or not.
It seems a bit pretentious to say you can teach a snake not to bite. I do agree that some become accustomed to your presence. As far as handling, I only move the hots with a hook (I don't keep many elapids, though I do understand that lots of cobra keepers are more comfortable with hands than hooks.) Then again, I have some snakes that huff and puff and spit and strike should you look at them wrong, even after years of captivity. Those that tolerate you can still bite. And will, given the right conditions. That is not a domestic animal.
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RE: Are Venomous Snakes Pets ?
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by fbergman31 on January 4, 2011
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Well I mean we all have pets (even cats and dogs) for some purpose, we may like to play with them, they may entertain us, they may even be guard dogs. But we still regard them as pets. All our pets have some end or function we can use them for but the main reason we have them is for pleasure. By utility I think they mean something like a seeing eye dog or a police dog who's primary purpose is utility. Perhaps if you owned a snake to milk its venom that would be a purpose or utility but I wouldn't consider enjoying watching the snake or breeding them a purpose because that's pleasurable (unless you mean you are conducting a real scientific study). Is owning a pet for the purpose of pleasure or entertainment a purpose ? Obviously not in the context the definition ment, I think you took the definition out of context.
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RE: Are Venomous Snakes Pets ?
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by Crotalusssp on January 4, 2011
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Okay I am going to carefully add just a little and try to avoid some of the hostility that seems to be going around. I do not feel as snakes are well defined as "pets". I keep both venomous and non, and feel this way about both. My view is that any snake given the choice would choose to leave and be free over captivity and could/would survive doing so. Domesticated animals either need or in some way enjoy/choose human companionship. That said some animals such as cats live very well wild, but also do well as "pets", domesticated. As far as biting, animals we consider domesticated such as dogs surely bite.
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RE: Are Venomous Snakes Pets ?
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by fbergman31 on January 4, 2011
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I also have a ball python and a reticulated python that have never struck at me and enjoy when I take them out. They have never shown any ill feelings towards me. However, when I bought a wild caught ball python it took months of handling and getting bit until it calmed down. Wouldn't you say my first two snakes were domesticated and over time I domesticated the third ? Although I understand this may be much harder to do with venomous snakes it is still possible. I used venom defender gloves to calm my cobra. But then again does , a snake, such as a ball python, is sold at a pet shop but is aggressive, is it not a pet ? I would argue it still is a pet because it is cared for and in a state of captivity. Being tame does not have to be a prerequisite.
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RE: Are Venomous Snakes Pets ?
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by fbergman31 on January 4, 2011
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Thats not true I know plenty of people who let their cats and dogs out and they just run away and never come back. Animals well taken care of as well. By that standard nothing would be a pet, a hampster, ferret, fish, lizard. Animals cannot act in their own interest and I think if they could weigh the dangers of the wild with the luxaries of captivity most would choose to stay in captivity they just don't understand that it is in their interest to stay in captivity. If they did they probably would'nt leave.
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RE: Are Venomous Snakes Pets ?
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by Crotalusssp on January 4, 2011
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As Nicole stated before there really is no clear correct answer. People can call their snakes "pets", I will just choose to call mine captive organisms. As far as snakes "enjoying" being handled, that is a whole different debate I do not want to get into, but seems to be quite a delusion some folks have.
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