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Survey Question	Current Survey Question Should hobbyists ever free handle venomous reptiles with their hands? Recent Surveys Most venomous/toxic Naja species in the world? I have read that the Philippine cobra is the most venomous (mice, 0.2 mg/kg SC with the lowest reported value being 0.14 mg/kg SC) (Brown, 1973). I have recently, come across something in the Indian Journal of Experimental Biology (Vol. 30, (issue 12), pages: 1158-1162, 1992) which stated that the LD50 for Naja oxiana was the most toxic/venomous (mice, 0.18 mg/kg SC and lowest reported value was 0.10 mg/kg). Along with that, the mortality rate for untreated Naja oxiana bites are the highest among all Naja species (70-80%). N.oxiana also produced the lowest known lethal dose (LCLo) of 0.005 mg/kg, the lowest among all cobra species ever recorded, derived from an individual case of poisoning by intracerebroventricular injection. Following N. oxiana and N. philippinensis are N. melanoleuca at 0.225 mg/kg SC and then N. samarensis at 0.23 mg/kg. The water cobras (N. annulata and N. christyi also have very toxic venoms, but no SC values are listed. Only intraperitoneal (IP) values of 0.143 mg/kg for N. annulata and 0.12 mg/kg for N. christyi. IP values tend to be generally lower (more toxic than subcutaneous values, so it would be unfair to compare their IP results to the subcutaneous (SC) results of other Naja species. Then I have heard that (without solid evidence) that Naja nivea is the most venomous, although their murine SC LD50 range anywhere from 0.4 mg/kg (Toxicon, Vol. 5, issue 1, page 47, 1967) to 0.72 mg/kg (Australian venoms and toxins Databse). So which is the most venomous? To me it seems obvious that it is the Caspian or Oxus cobra (Naja oxiana), followed by the Philippine cobra (Naja philippinensis). What do you think or know? I've noticed that the Australian venom and toxin Database seems to have higher LD50 values for all snakes across the board. For example, for the black mamba IP value of 0.01 mg/kg is listed (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/004101018890219X) and Ernst and Zug et al 1996, list a SC value of 0.05 mg/kg for the black mamba. While the Australian venom and toxin Database listed much less toxic LD50's. So there seems to be a lot of variation. 2014-01-23 What's Your Favorite Venomous Snake? 2013-11-13 Deadliest Bite? 2013-09-16 IF the science of self-immunization for a snake envenomation was proven/perfected what is the least benefit(percentage) you would accept before practicing it on yourself? 2013-06-06 how did you learn to keep venomous reptiles? 2013-03-02 View All Survey Questions Have a good idea for a VenomousReptiles.org Survey question? Enter your idea!
You are on an expedition up the Amazon and your boat sinks. What single object do your grab to take with you as you escape? (explain why in comments section, or "other")   Posted: Dec 23, 2006   (134 votes, 38 comments) by Chris_Harper   Survival kit (contains hook & line, lighter, saw, rubber tubing, emergency blanket.)   Water bottle   Antimalarials   GPS   Snake stick   Map & Compass   Machete     (134 votes, 38 comments)
Survey Results
Survival kit (contains hook & line, lighter, saw, rubber tubing, emergency blanket.) 46% (62) Water bottle 3% (4) Antimalarials 1% (2) GPS 10% (14) Snake stick 4% (5) Map & Compass 12% (16) Machete 23% (31)
Survey Comments
MACHETTE id take the machette as if u are competant enough you can make everything you will need with the machette, but however the survival tool would be invaluable to the average person, compass isnt required if you have guiding/tracking knowledge, so the big heavy trail cutting machette would be my choice but i would advise the survival tool to anyone who isnt prepared(except they shouldnt b there anyway);) Posted by keyz on February 25, 2007 Fire by Friction If you want to learn how to make Fire By Friction, or Fire by Flint, and you live in GA, you need to attend one of the Native American PowWows around the State, and find Ben Kirkland, the "flint knapper." He is at many PowWows each year, including the two at the Gwinnett County Fairgrounds, and the one at Stone Mountain Park, and several in Cherokee County. He will usually be dressed in brain-tanned Elk skin clothing, and knapping arrow points at a display of native tools. He also usually does a Ceremonial Fire Lighting for the PowWows using a hand drill. Ben is a Nationally known Primitive Skills Specialist, and is Chief Ranger and Naturalist at Chehaw Park in Albany, Georgia. Ask Ben to show you how to make fire by friction. He will even sell you a pre-made kit with all the materials you will need for a bow drill, and he will show you how to use it. You will then be able to take it home and practice fire building. Ben is one of just a handfull of folks in the country who can start a fire by using a hand drill. If you are ever near Albany, GA, stop by the Nature Center and look up Ben Kirkland. If you ever attend a Native American PowWow, ask for Ben. Then tell him you want to learn fire building by friction. Best Regards JohnZ Posted by Cro on February 2, 2007 Quinine Looking over this list of possibilities, the only thing I can see that can't really be improvised would be a resistance to diseases such as malaria......given enough effort, you can overcome not having a hatchet, matches, etc... you probably won't have any need for a thermal blanket in the Amazon. Snake hooks are great, but I used plain old sticks for years when I was young and they will get the job done......GPS/Compass would be handy, but if you can find the sun and the stars/constellations - you should be able to keep yourself heading in a steady, straight direction toward where you need to go....also, following the river will inevitably lead you to some form of civilization, tribes will always make villages near fresh water.... Posted by taipan9 on February 2, 2007 The GOAL While most of the time I appreciate the advice of the "experts", this time you have taken your eye off the goal. The goal is not to survive indefinately in the jungle nor is it to build your own one man village. The goal is extraction!! None of the items listed will get you home quicker than a map of the land and a compass. Sure a machete would be useful, and I'm sure most of you probably think you can blaze a trail wide enough to land aircraft. It wont do any good if your going in the wrong direction. Tribal men, women and children have survived/traveled without machete's. With or without a machete travel in the jungle is difficult. With a map each step is a step closer to home. While you boys are out in the jungle thumping your chest and playing with your machete's. I will be at the hotel taking a hot shower, ordering room service and watching Oprah. Posted by Viper-ess on February 1, 2007 I am with Chris on this one, pick the machete. I have several but always carry one I obtained in Venezuela in the early 1980s and had a scabbard made for it in Brazil. It has been everywhere (legal) with me and proved to be essential. You can escape a jungle by following a river downstream until you reach a settlement (which tend to congregate along rivers, the roads of the jungle) or can hail a passing canoe, but since vegetation is often densest where there is more sublight, along riverbanks, it is essential that the machete be be kept sharp or it will be useless. Another tip, many machete handles are smooth plastic, which can become slippery with sweat, or wood, which can cause blisters and splinters. Bind the handle before hand with something that is comfortable and easy to grip. A point about suvival kits and antimalarials (from one who has had malaria 6x). Water-purification tablets and two week dose of antimalarials should always be kept in the survival tin, which is then sealed with waterproof tape and not raided unless the worst happens. These pills can then be taken at the end of the course when you arrive safely home. Survival kits etc should be on your person because if the boat sinks you generally do not have time to nip down to you cabin to pick it up, but don't do what one military survival expert recommended to me 20years ago. He told me he sewed everything he needed into his boonie hat, which was always on his head, so far so good, until he goes over the side and the damned hat comes off and floats away! Mark O'Shea Posted by Mark_OShea on January 27, 2007 Final Answer The final and correct answer on this was, as many have stated, "the machete". Everything else can be acquired or manufactured using the machete: shelter, cordage, food, water, hunting utensils like - spears, frog gigs, barbed fish spears, snares etc. Acquiring clean water in the jungle is an art form all by itself and must be learned through practical application. Saying and "doing" are two different things. A lot of things sound simple and easy to perform in theory, however, fire from friction is a skill that must be learned through much sweat and tears - as an example. Take the time to learn survival skills. It's good for you! Posted by Chris_Harper on January 25, 2007 My Mind, My Eyes and... All I would need to survive in the jungle would be, My Mind,, My Eyes and a Machete it is a great tool to kill meat, build shelter, crack open coconuts and so much more I cast my vote for the Machete. Posted by JeremyTMoore on January 17, 2007 Water etc. The reason the water bottle isn't the best item is quite simple - it's a very limited supply. Once it's gone, you'll have an empty water bottle. Then what? If I had put "water purifier" or "water filtration pump", then yeah, I'd say that would be right at the top of the list. There's no question that dirty water will screw you up pretty quick, but people have survived in the jungle by drinking directly from streams and rivers. Posted by Chris_Harper on January 16, 2007 Machete in the arctic or conifer forests the best tool is a hatchet. and i notice that the indigenous peoples of south america often carry only a machete. knowledge is of course the greatest resource Posted by Pango on January 13, 2007 Water Water Water Darn, here I thought you guys knew your stuff. Some of these comments sound like Tarzan on the couch watching a Monday night football game. Allways, Allways, take water first, then snatch the survival kit real quick as your going overboard. Posted by WaterBottle on January 13, 2007 Rubber tubing Uses of the rubber tubing most helpful in a survival situation: speargun, slingshot, solar still straw. It also functions well as fire tender, since when lit it burns for a long time and can be used to get a fire going in a moist environment. You guys better take Cro with you if go to the jungle. :-) CH Posted by Chris_Harper on January 11, 2007 Map and Compass These would be the most vital to your extraction. You would definitly need to know how to get out and where to get out or at least where the most local village is. I was watching the discovery channel not to long ago and they had a thing on that talked about these 2 brothers who got seperated in the amazon and they both needed to find their way out they were lost in the jungle for around 30 days with no food or water and the one brother finallly found his way to a local military establishment where they commenced in an air search. This proved unsuccessful and due to the hope he still had to find his brother he asked a local to take him up stream. They finallly found him 3 days after the first brothers safe return. Although severly dehydrated and without food or energy for that matter they finally found him and returned him to safty. The map is what saved the fist guy and helped him make it out alive so im thinking I would go with the map. The compass also allows for travel at night although I dont think it would be the greatest of ideas. Posted by vanerka on January 9, 2007 I chose machete! I believe it`s all the help you need to survive in the jungle. Best regards, Alex Posted by Snake18 on January 8, 2007 Saw Tom- You sound like a person I would enjoy meeting and talking to. I agree that there are judgement calls to be made in prioritizing the sacred order in every climate/environment depending on the situation and available resources. I don't have any experience in Africa, but I would love to go sometime. I love the hunt... self guided, Africa... your the man. I do have a good deal of experience in N & C America. The only comment I have about the survival saw is... you hope it would be of some quality. Many are not. I have broken several within minutes of putting them to use. I still choose the machete for it's overall utility. It may be hard work getting through the jungle with one, but the saw ain't gonna help in that regard either. Andrew Posted by MoccasinMan on January 7, 2007 BTW Andrew, you have the order of the four elements of survival correct If you are In a nearctic environment ... Regards, Tom Posted by canuck on January 7, 2007 It seems you guy's are forgetting that the survival kit contains a saw !..... You probabaly never tried to hack through rain forest with a machete ? It Is the hardest work you will ever do ! A westerner would ware down in the heat and humidity In a few days.I am talking from experience..I have gone on a self outfitted hunting safaris with the pygmies of Cameroon. Water ,food, shelter, fire. In that order or your a dead man ! I mentioned on an earlier post that If you travel some 300 or so feet from waters edge, You will find that one can move with relative ease.. no need to kill yourself by hacking away... Posted by canuck on January 7, 2007 SURVIVAL! That actually happened to me once. I lost the corkscrew and was forced to live on food and water for weeks. Posted by abamacracker on January 5, 2007 Survival Skills I think if your survival skills are limited the survival kit is the way to go. If you have a basic knowledge of survival their is no more useful single tool than a machete. You may have all the components nessesary to produce fresh water by builing a solar still with the survival kit, but if you don't know survival, you don't know about a solar still. If you know the vital utility of the machete, you know many ways to aquire/produce fresh water and are also able to fashion/find the other sacred elements of survival utilizing the machete... shelter, fire, food. Although there are some problems to deal with that are endemic to jungle survival, there are other environments that are much more challenging... and the machete is a universally useful tool that transends environment. Andrew Posted by MoccasinMan on January 4, 2007 Survival Question For me to answer this question would depend on, how long I expected to have to survive on my own. If I had been traveling for weeks and my boat sank on an uncharted/seasonal tributary I would take the survival kit. If I had been traveling for a few days and my boat sank on a main channel I would probably take the map and compass. The amazon river although large is well traveled. It would be hard pressed to be on the main channel during good weather for more than a week and not see at least one boat. Again if I had been gone only a few days I might even try and hike my own way out. You can always survive on plants, worms and even bug juice for a few days. Lets face it if you can not find food in a jungle you don't belong on this planet. Posted by Ptk on January 2, 2007 Pure Water There is a great source for pure water in most tropical jungles that is not well known. Many herbaceous and woody tropical jungle Vines or "Lianas" transport a huge amount of water through their Xylem Tissues. You simply cut the vine off near the ground, and then make another cut into the vine as high up as you can reach. This will break the vaccume and allow the xylem water to flow down and out of the vine into a container that your have fashioned of bannana or other large tropical leaves, or of a piece of bamboo you have cut. Of course, this will require the use of a Machete to cut the vine and make the bamboo container ! You can also lay out cloting during the night, and as temperatures cool at night, moisture is released in the form of dew from the atmosphere. This dew soaks into the clothing and can be wrung out in the morning to capture the water for drinking. You can also use clothing to "mop up" dew water from the surface of tropical plants. Many small tropical animals get most of their water from lappin dew water. Both produce pure water that reqires no boiling. Best Regards JohnZ Posted by Cro on January 2, 2007 Survival Kit Can't live without water. Only the survival kit gives you the means to purify some for consumption. Posted by Coralsnayk on January 2, 2007 Machete Too elude to Chris's post earlier, Living or traveling through the jungle is pretty difficult without a machete. Its the one thing I see no one without in the rainforest. WE've been turned around and somewhat off the beaten path on the Osa Peninsula, and while map, compass and GPS were navigational aids, without a machete, you'll never get through any of that nasty tangle of vegetation. A pocket knife won't cut it in the jungle (no pun intended)....try to crack open a coconut with a pocket knife. MH Posted by MattHarris on January 1, 2007 Survival Books Friends, if you have an interest in wilderness survival, then find these books on Amazon on Survival and read them: "Finding Your Way Without Map or Compass" by Harold Gatty. "Nature Is Your Guide: How to Find Your Way on Land and Sea by Observing Nature" by Harold Gatty. Tom Brown's Field Guide to Wilderness Survival (Survival School Handbooks / Tom Brown, Jr) or any of the other Tom Brown guides. Survival, Evasion, and Excape. Live Off The Land In The City And Country, and any other book by Ragnar Benson. Hope this helps. Best Regards JohnZ Posted by Cro on December 30, 2006 Survival Andrew, I first became interested in survival when I was in Boy Scouts. Early on, I was reading books on Indian lore by W.Ben Hunt, and Danial Carter Beard, Ernist Thompson Seaton, as well as every herpetological and nature book in my school library. My Scoutmaster was a WW2 veteran who had served all over the South Pacific including Guadalcanal. He had an strong interest in herpetology, indian lore and survival. I learned a lot of outdoor and survival skills from him. I also have a uncle who was a machine-gunner in WW2 and served all over Europe and in the Battle of the Bulge. I learned a lot outdoor lore from him. I also purchased and read every survival book I could get my hands on in my youth. Later, in my travells, I met a few very "interesting" folks along the way, so I know what you mean about the White Coyote. They just "sort of" show up at times. I have also had the good fortune to work for Reptile Curators and Zoo Directors who were unique individuals, who taught me a lot of valuable lessons, and who introduced me to other people who I probably would have not met without their help. I have many friends who are Native Americans, and they have skills that they have shared with me. I have taught wilderness survival at Scout Camps, and have conducted survival camps in winter and very challenging conditions, and have lead other groups on trips through the Okeefenokee Swamp and to Coastal Islands, and in wild caves. I have also taught rock climbing and rope courses. I have also learned a lot along the way, because of a need, such as automobile repair and engine and transmission rebuilding, knife making, gun smithing, carpentry, welding, etc. I always enjoy learning new things, and would always rather learn to do something myself, than to pay someone else to fix something. I still try to learn what I can from reading and all the interesting folks I meet along the way. Best Regards JohnZ Posted by Cro on December 30, 2006 John I am very impressed with your knowlege of survival. Are you self taught or did someone show you/point you in the right direction? My interest started in highschool, began to develope in the Army, but became truely proficient through the guidance of a white coyote... TBjr. Although that will sound crazy to most, I have a feeling you know what I'm talking about. Imagination, perseverance and dirt time can overcome most any challenge. Knowlege of the solar still saved my life once... surrounded by water and not a drop to drink. Andrew Posted by MoccasinMan on December 30, 2006 Rubber Tubing in Survival Kit The rubber tubing in the survival kit could be used as a drinking straw along with the survival blanket to produce a solar still to purify water. Also, it could be fashioned into a sling shot that could be used to kill lizards and birds for food. Also as a compression bandage in case of snake bite. It also could be used to lash things together, and could be used with a bamboo spear to create a Hawaiian Sling fish spear. Probably a lot more uses if folks use their imagination. As far as the bamboo fire saw, I have used them, and they do produce fire by friction. I know I could also create fire with a bow type fire drill using palm or yucca stalks for the drill and base part, and probably with a hand fire drill using several types of dry plant stalks, although that is a lot more difficult to do. There is also a way to make a compression fire piston using a close fitting hardwood dowl inside of a bamboo tube. When the dowl is smacked sharply down, it creates compression inside the bamboo cylinder, and that creates heat which can ignite shredded tinder in the bottom of the tube. Creating a fire piston would take a lot of time shaving the piston with the Machete to be the right fit for the bamboo tube. I could also create fire with quartz or flint type rocks and their sparks, as well as with a "magnifing glass" made from a many lens items like watch bezels, eyeglasses lens, binocular and camera lens if they were available. Best Regards JohnZ Posted by Cro on December 29, 2006 survival kit fo sho you gotta have the survival kit. why bring water when your in the amazon. just boil the river water to get rid of parasites and bacteria. why bring a snake stick when you could just just use a wooden one. mud could be your mosquito repellent. and why bring a GPS or map when all you gotta do is travel up or down river. a machete would be useful but whenever im out in the feild i always have a pocket knife on my personal. Posted by Robb on December 29, 2006 Machete The four sacred elements to survival- in order are: shelter, water, fire & food. In the hands of someone skilled in survival living, a machete or a good knife would be the most valuable single tool to have. With this one tool I can produce all four sacred elements relatively easily. Andrew Posted by MoccasinMan on December 29, 2006 Cro's Answers I like Cro's answers best so far. The only thing I will argue with is that it is not "easy" to make fire without matches/lighter in the jungle, -- unless you know about the bamboo fire saw (which you need a machete to create). If you learn that, you are in darned good shape. Posted by Chris_Harper on December 28, 2006 Question Anyone know what the rubber tubing in the survival kit is for? CH Posted by Chris_Harper on December 28, 2006 TOUGH!!! Anyone who has ever been to the rainforests knows that this is an agonizingly difficult choice. It's virtually impossible to survive without at least 2 of these items, but I won't hint at what. I wanted to add "jungle hammock" to the list simply because one rule of jungle living is NO SLEEPING ON THE GROUND. Choose wisely! webmaster Posted by Chris_Harper on December 28, 2006 Fire... I picked the survival kit but mostly just for the lighter. With that I can purify water, cook food and possibly signal. If I were more confident in my ability to make fire without at least some steel, I might have gone with the water bottle and figured I'de find a vilage before I even needed to bother with food. It would depend a lot on where I was, and how well I knew where I was. Posted by LarryDFishel on December 26, 2006 A survival kit is most important! If you stay a few hundred feet from the waters edge, (forest is less dense) and travel downstream you will eventually come to a villiage.They always occur along waterways. GPS works great if you can see the sky but it cant feed ya! In the mean time you have to eat etc. Maliaria can kill you. the parasites in the water will affect you much sooner ! Posted by canuck on December 26, 2006 Snake Hook Its in my hand all the time, I'm not sure why my other hand would be slacking off so I guess it would have to be the snake hook. I know people who work in the amazon, they say that if you are in the jungle the GPS is pointless anyway. Merry Christmas! Posted by herpman05 on December 25, 2006 Malaria CDC and World Health Org says Malaria takes 7 to 30 days from exposure to start of symptoms, usually 12 to 20 days, so you have a fair ammount of time to get out of jungle even if you are exposed by mosquito bite. And not all jungle areas harbor malaria mosquito populations. I am sticking with a Machete. Best Regards JohnZ Posted by Cro on December 25, 2006 "...lying on the jungle floor wondering Who I am." I am wondering how I got lost in the Amazon! I didn't even know I was going! Dick Bartlett better get another boat out here quick! The Boss Posted by The_Boss on December 25, 2006 atrox56 Rain takes care of water Gps,? well you should know where you went down Machete? Would have been nice but you can live with out it Map and compas? use the stars and Sun for direction. Snake stick? a long branch works well for that. Survival kit for food? Plenty to eat growing on the fauna. Malaria will wipr you out fairly fast and I would not want to be lying on the jungle floor wondering Who I am. Posted by Atrox9 on December 25, 2006 Nothing like a good sharp Machete! With it you can create shelter, cordage, fishing line and hooks, build fire, catch snakes, fend off jajuars, create weapons, cut vines for water, dig holes, create water containers and cooking utensils, procure food, etc. You could also use the Macete to build a raft to replace your boat that sunk. Things like the GPS are of no use once the battery goes dead. Who needs a snake stick? The world is full of sticks. Antimalarials would be nice, but hopefully, you will be out of there before you get symptoms. Smearing mud over exposed areas of your body can help ward off mosquitos. The stuff in the survival kit would be nice, but you can build that stuff a lot easier with a Machete than you can build a Machete with a survival kit. Stuff like the lighter would be handy, but making fire is actually fairly easy to do. The map and compass would be handy, especially if you went overland, and did not follow the river back to where you came from. However, the direction of the sun could be used as a natural compass. So, for me, the Machete would be be the most logical and useful. Best Regards JohnZ Posted by Cro on December 24, 2006 To post a comment, you must be logged in. If you are not a member, become one now!