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personality
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Different snake species definitely have different "overall" personalities, but so do the individuals within a species, which is why everyone's personal experiences with various venomous snakes will always vary. Of the fellow keepers I have known who have been envenomated, the most common culprit is Crotalus atrox. However, my own CB female WDB is the mellowest, most settled rattlesnake in my collection. She politely accepts her weekly rodent and spends the rest of her time resting quietly under or on top of her log. She has sung for me only once. The ones I am most wary of are the Canebrakes, and regardless of what anyone says, they are very different in both appearance and attitude from timbers. I have found the canes to be much quicker to strike, and without any warning whatsoever. Regardless of species, the most dangerous snake in your collection is probably the one you underestimate, or worry about the least. Such "docile" specimens are more likely to catch you with your guard down and let you have it. Any venomous keeper should follow a rigid set of rules, including: never work with the snakes if you are tired or in a hurry! Also, be extra careful of any new additions to your collection that you are not familiar with yet(and vice-verse).
Posted by
FSB
on June 10, 2007
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EDIT: I thought people were refering to B.Atrox, not C. Atrox... my bad.
Serves me right for not reading more carefully. :-P
Posted by
osha7677
on June 5, 2007
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Mojave would be the most dangerous NORTH AMERICAN snake to keep in captivity. The others (eastern and western rattlers, cottonmouths, etc...) have low mortality rate even without medical treatment.
A Mojave will kill you before you even get to anti-venom. The key here being that mojave venom is primarily neurotoxic, as opposed to the hemotoxic venom used by most other NORTH AMERICAN hots (the coral snake being the exception).
Anyone mentioning Atrox is not familiar with it's range. It is not a NORTH AMERICAN snake. Besides, if you are going to mention a Bothrops it might as well be Bothrops Asper both due to it's worse temperment compaired to Atrox, and it's closer proximity to North America (Atrox = South America, Asper = Central America).
Posted by
osha7677
on June 5, 2007
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Mojave
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Blend of venom and attitude is what I base this on. A good friend, "Bunky" Paddock was killed by a Mojave. He got the snake back in the cage, exited the room, got 10ft down the hall. That is where his wife found him.
R.I.P.
Posted by
Cflaguy
on February 24, 2007
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c. atrox is ,in my opinion, the most dangerous (not deadliest).due to it's expansive range and often suburban locality, western diamondbacks come into dangerous contact with people more often than any other venomous north american snake. yes, copperheads and cottonmouths do very frequently come into contact with humans, the western diamondback seems to be the more aggressive out of the 3.
Posted by
Robb
on February 22, 2007
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Mojave
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I would have to say it is the Mojave, though I have never kept it, I do have C.horridus, and atrox, even though the atrox can have a bad attitude the Mojave has the more toxic venom and thus a more serious bite
Posted by
bpmojo99
on February 18, 2007
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Rock Rattlesnake
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First off I should be working and not posting. Secondly, this is my first time here and first post. I know the rock rattlesnake was not on the list. The first one I ever captured kept leering at me through the glass, daring me to put my hand in for a quick bite. Every little movement, she would play a song for me on her tail.
Posted by
mwhooker
on February 18, 2007
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mojave
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I screwed up and accidently hit timber. Anyway, yeah I'd have to say the deadliest rattler would have to be the mojave, because I base 'deadliest' on toxicity of venom, not attitude or how difficult they are to handle due to their size.
Although, in my opinion and based upon my experience, which i'll admit is limited, a poll asking what rattler had the pissiest attitude would have me voting for my old friend and colleague, Crotalus viridis viridis. But then again, that's just my 2-cents worth.
Posted by
JediPeaceFrog
on February 16, 2007
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I must say, I have kept all of the species on this list except for horridus, and I had to go with good old atrox for the combination of size, temperment, and potentially massive venom yield. Altough adamanteus is right there, they tend to calm down a little better. I do, however, currently keep two wild caught WDB's that are the most calm rattlers I haver owned. I cant remember the last time I heard them rattle. Definatly exceptions to the rule. I also keep a scutulatus with a particularly nasty attitude.
Posted by
D-back
on February 15, 2007
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Having kept everything on the list, and working everything except helleri in the field, I voted EDB for sure.
Sure you get the occasional exuberant horridus, atrox or any other species, but were talking species generalizations here. EDB's are so much more massive and generally irascible, with the aforementioned puff adder-ish "backflip" they use occasionally. This part of Texas is the "Land of WDB's", seeing 20+ in a day is not too uncommon - heck we have half a dozen in the zoo collection and I have probably twice that at home right now, so lots of WDB experience and they definitely are not tops on my personal list.
Posted by
venom
on February 11, 2007
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"Agkistrodon piscivorous" Why Not On List?
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I also wondered why Agkistrodon piscivorous was not on the List. They are known to have very bad dispositions and do have a knack of Showing Off, even when Kept in captivity for Years. But they are not that Toxic of a Snake, so I wouldn’t really consider them one of the Most Dangerous.
I still think Mr. Canebrake to be Number One tho.
Be Safe Ya’ll, Happy Herping : Wally
Posted by
ALA_snake33
on February 9, 2007
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Crotalus adamanteus, But !!!
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I voted for the EDB, but I still think that C. h. atricaudatus is probably the most Dangerous Species you could Keep (yes I still agree with the fact that there is a Southern Subspecies to C. h. horridus), they seem to be a lot more High Strung & Unpredictable than any other Species in this Country. During my time at the Zoo and at Home, I Worked with 32 Canebrakes, and 24 Timbers. Both have some very Unpredictable Moments, that have caught me Off Guard more than once.
On the other hand, I have also Worked with 20 EDB’s. And all of these Snakes would make the Hair Stand on My Neck wile Handling. I learned that Handling EDB’s, was a lot like Handling Puffy’s. Both of these Species seem to have the knack of slinging their Front Ends back over their own Body. To me, this makes the EDB a very Dangerous Baby.
Be Safe Ya’ll, Happy Herping : Wally
Posted by
ALA_snake33
on February 9, 2007
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WDB
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I guess we can agree on one thing Larry.... its always about size with you men (LOL, :))
XXXOOOXXX
Posted by
Viper-ess
on February 9, 2007
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Oops...
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I guess I did agree with one of your reasons after all... :)
Posted by
LarryDFishel
on February 9, 2007
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Hmmm...
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Not sure what a medical journal would have to do with it. If you mean they cause the most deaths or the most bites, that's irrelivant to the question. They cause more bites in the wild simply because there are more of them, but the question was about in captivity.
I'll agree with your pick but for different reasons. I think the Western's size makes them harder to keep at a safe distance than any but the Eastern. Given the size difference between those two is fairly small and that Westerns seem to be more likely to retain their "attitude", I went with them.
The mojave seems like the worst to be bitten by, but since they are a more managable size, there's no excuse for being bitten by one.
Posted by
LarryDFishel
on February 9, 2007
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Take it or leave it!
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If you can put down the 40oz long enough to pick up a medical journal, you might find the title of most dangerous goes to none other than Mr. Atrox.
He might have a bigger brother but I have not met a Western yet that was fond of captivity even CB's. Definately not the snake for a bunch of Steve Irwin wanna be's.
Posted by
Viper-ess
on February 8, 2007
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Mojave
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There are a lot of variables that must be taken into consideration, but with all else being equal, I voted for the Mojave just due to the toxicity of their venom.
Posted by
GKeown
on February 8, 2007
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pigmy rattler
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they are small and very difficult to control.
they have a really high bite rate in captivity.
Posted by
snakeguy101
on February 8, 2007
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Im with jeremy the mojave i have heard is very nasty to mess with. But at the moment i have a fresh caught WDB and it's just evil. It strikes at repeatedly at shadows so it gets my vote.
Posted by
squigy
on February 8, 2007
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Taking this from a medical perspective, I have been involved in the care of patients with bites from all of these species except the Mojave. In my experience the Adamanteus produces the most fatalities due its large venom yield and poor response to current antivenom treatment, and the timber being the second on my list. Cases I have been involved with by the other species have been mild in comparison. But the most dangerous snake either way is the one that just bit you!
Posted by
JoeCrotalid
on February 7, 2007
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Actually I am not surprised at all that someone has voted for the copperhead. Some copperheads can be quite belligerent in their ways and put up just as much of a battle on the hook as any crotalid will. And, venomous is venomous. Fatalities may be rare but there is nothing groovy about possible disfigurement, loss of mobility, brain damage, amputation, or any of the other wondrous results that a well placed copperhead bite can bring about. I recall the late-great Sherman Minton telling me about his worse bite ever; after all the snakes he had handled in his day, it was a 8 inch copperhead that he would go on for an hour about.
Doug Hotle
General Curator
Abilene ZOOlogical Gardens
Abilene, Texas
Posted by
AquaHerp
on February 6, 2007
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Wow some one voted for the copperhead...LOL
Posted by
SpikeyReptiles
on February 6, 2007
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What about these?
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Why is the Copperhead on here but the Cottonmouth, Coral Snake and Sidewinder?
Posted by
JeremyTMoore
on February 6, 2007
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Given the size and the potential for unloading a massive amount of juice into one’s system, I'd go with an Eastern. The big boys are a little tougher and unmanageable on the hooks than are the smaller species that are more easily kept out of strike range when working them. Yet a large adamanteus tends to be a little rougher to keep at that safe zone while riding a hook to the barrel.
Doug Hotle
General Curator
Abilene ZOOlogical Gardens
Abilene, Texas
Posted by
AquaHerp
on February 6, 2007
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Mojave
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Having worked with all of the critters on the list, I'm goin with the Mojave..
They have the hottest bite out of the group.
Posted by
BuzzzWorm
on February 6, 2007
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I keep several of the N.A. Speceics and yet I find that my S.Pacific is the most dangerous to me, She's very unpredictable. One day she's calm the other nervous as hell but one thing is always certain she never hesitates to strike! The venom on the other hand is exhibiting Hemo and Neuro Toxin effects, which devistate the animals I feed her. I would rather deal with my Mojaves any day of the week.
Posted by
jarman66
on February 5, 2007
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I had to go with EDB. I have to admit I never kept EDB or timber but I kept the rest listed. I find the size and aggression more dangerous than the potency. It's hard to decide between snakes that have the potential to kill. It really doesn't matter to me how potent the venom is if I will never get bitten. I couldn't say it so confidently about a large, strong and aggressive rattlesnake where the chances of a bite are way bigger. Smaller sized rattlesnakes are are not so strong and heavy and are easy to manage. I personally prefer to deal with a cobra than angry 7 ft rattler.
Posted by
petra
on February 5, 2007
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I can say from my animals and those of other keepers that i know..The western diamond back usually lives up to It's reputation as being(arguably) the most dangerous..As simple as turning on the lights in my snake room get's mine pissed off ! and they are CB and raised to boot.
Regards,
Tom
Posted by
canuck
on February 5, 2007
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Either way, Timber or Canebrake, the name is still Crotalus horridus regardless. The question is which species, not sub-species. So if your for the atricadautus the Crotalus horridus is the only pick. Theres no reason for putting on Crotalus horridus atricadautus in a question not asking sub-species. By the way, I put WDB.
Posted by
herpman05
on February 5, 2007
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Canebrake / Timber
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Alex, while it is true that the Canebrake Rattlesnake form is no longer considered a sub-species, it is very different from the mountain form of Timber Rattlesnake as far as the Venom is concerned. That is the distinction that most folks here are talking about. The Venom found in Canebrake Rattlesnakes has some very nasty effects that are not found in mountain Timber Rattlesnake venom.
Best Regards JohnZ
Posted by
Cro
on February 4, 2007
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WDB
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I chose the WDB even if I only have experience with this species of north American hot snake.
To those who chose other and mentioned they chose "canebrake". The canebrake was never thought as being a different species from the timber. They were always Crotalus horridus. It`s the same species, regardless if you consider the canebrake to be a valid subspecies of the timber.
Best regards,
Alex
Posted by
Snake18
on February 4, 2007
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Several of these snakes are dangerous for different reasons. If you are asking which one is going to make me say, "OH S___!" the loudest if I am bitten, that would probably be the Eastern diamondback. My big one is 6 feet and would carry a huge venom load. Additionally, the current antivenom doesn't do a very good job of dealing with the most severe envenomations. Likewise with the Southern Pacific. The Mojave kills horses without much difficulty. Nuff said? The Canebrake version of the Timber can drop your blood pressure out within 15 minutes, and if not properly handled, can certainly be enough to kill you. But temperament and venom combined, I'd have to go with the Western diamondback. The ones that I've been exposed to in captivity have all been extremely nervous animals, and that's the formula that leads to bad things. I used to have a female EDB that was extremely temperamental though, and every bit as dangerous as any WDB.
Posted by
Chris_Harper
on February 3, 2007
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I had to choose "other" because my favorite wasn't on the list, a big W/C SE Georgia Canebrake.(I too, still separate them from Timbers) Marty
Posted by
agkistrodude
on February 3, 2007
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Canbrake
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I voted for the Timber b/c of the lack of the Canbrake. I do not have experience with S. Pacific that some of you have, but Canbrake can act very "random" is the way I state it. Their random disposition accompanied with unpredictable venom makes them one of my least favorite to work with.
Posted by
Crotalusssp
on February 3, 2007
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Most Dangerous!
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The answer to this question would be how you define the word "dangerous". Does this mean; largest amount of venom yield per bite? Responsible for the most bites every year? Responsible for the most deaths every year? Most likely to envenomate per bite? Most likely to strike without being provoked? Least likely to warn you before striking? Toxicity of various venom components? Damage of Hemotoxins vs Neurotoxins, and the list could go on......
If you try and compare behavior of these species that will depend on the specific snake and the author's experience. Despite differences in specie, behavior is dependant on too many factors (health, diet, age, wild caught/captive bred, temperature, hungry or not). Factor in the snakes experience (history of being whacked by shovels, attacked by predators (dogs, cats, etc.)) Some snakes take to captivity better than others.
This brings you to the keeper. Lets face it some of us are better at it than others. Rough/poor handling of a snake will get you bit faster than any genetic predisposition of the snake to strike.
Philosophically you could argue we are the most dangerous. More snakes die from our ignorance, failure to quarantine, unsanitary enclosures, neglect in vet care, handlers whom constantly stress their snakes, incorrect temperatures/humidity, destruction of habitat, etc.
I am surprised that considering their genealogy the Eastern Coral Snake didnt even make the list, despite traditionally having a low aggression level.
Posted by
Ptk
on February 3, 2007
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I have found all of these with the exception of the Mojave Rattlesnake in the wild. Taking into consideration everything that I have read and adding to that my personal experiences in the field, I believe that the Southern Pacific Rattlesnake is the most dangerous North American snake that I have ever encountered. Funny not to see the Cottonmouth as a choice, given their "legendary" disposition.
Posted by
Buzztail1
on February 3, 2007
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Canebrake Rattlesnake !
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I think I will vote for "Other," as the Canebrake Rattlesnake is not on the list, and I still draw a distinction between the Timber form and the Canebrake form.
The Eastern and Western Diamondback Rattlesnakes have huge supplies of venom, but they respond well to Anti-Venom treatment. They are also easy enough to keep in captivity once you learn their habits, and if you work with them with the right size snake hooks.
Same for Timber Rattlesnakes (Mountain Form). They are easy to keep, but can be unpredictable at times, and you have to watch out for feeding reflexes when the cages are opened. It is not fun having a large Timber Rattlesnake rush out of a cage at chest level, opened mouthed, ready to bite and eat something.
Southern Pacific Rattlesnakes have wicked venom, but tend to be fairly calm in captivity. Just do not take any chances with their mild behavior in working with them.
Mojave Rattlesnakes have wicked venom also, but they stay alert and are always warning you to be carefull with them.
Canebrake Rattlesnakes from certain localities can have some very wicked venom. And they can be unpredictable in their actions. It is easy to become complacent when working with them, you should really try to avoid this. I have a large pair of 4.5 to 5 foot Canebrakes, and have kept larger ones in the past. I greatly respect the potential danger these snakes possess. They tend to stay in a semi-alert state, that is as dangerous as it is deceptive. It is not firey like a EDB or WDB, and it is not laid back. It is like they are looking for an opportunity to bite when you let your guard down. I know someone who was bitten on the leg by a large Canebrake while quail hunting in S. GA. He spent 4 months in the hospital and almost died. Years later, he still has trouble walking because of all the damage the bite did to his leg.
Best Regards JohnZ
Posted by
Cro
on February 3, 2007
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Mojave and...
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I would have to say its the mojave rattler and the western diamondback.
Posted by
JeremyTMoore
on February 3, 2007
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Copperhead????
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I am not sure why the Copperhead made it to the list. If you had to tagged by any of these that would be the only one.
Posted by
Crotalusssp
on February 3, 2007
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Of course mojave and westerns are tied for first but with the unpredictable nature of canebrake rattlesnake venom anyone keeping these guys even though they are placid in nature one bite from the wrong venom type and your system will be all screwed up. then can you imagine the symptoms to be bit by a hybrid adamantus x horriudus atricidatus; i sure wouldnt want that on anybody trying to do some breeding projects.
Posted by
H20mocasin
on February 3, 2007
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My westerns were by far worse then my easterns and timbers...
Posted by
SpikeyReptiles
on February 3, 2007
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Difficult for me as i've only kept adamanteus and atrox out of this list. My westerns were certainly alot more firey than my easterns .
Funnily enough the scariest snake i've ever kept is my v.xanthina. He's extremely alert and seems to have a very good perception of what is going on around him. There is absolutely no hesitation to strike and he does so every time he's approached. This is a comparison against other notorious species i've kept like, saw scales, and naja.
Posted by
AlanHyde
on February 3, 2007
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Keeping any of these will carry the same inherent risk of being bitten as any of the others.....so I'm gonna say the one with the deadliest venom, in this case - its the mojave.
Posted by
taipan9
on February 2, 2007
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