VenomousReptiles.org Survey

Survey Question	Current Survey Question Should hobbyists ever free handle venomous reptiles with their hands? Recent Surveys Most venomous/toxic Naja species in the world? I have read that the Philippine cobra is the most venomous (mice, 0.2 mg/kg SC with the lowest reported value being 0.14 mg/kg SC) (Brown, 1973). I have recently, come across something in the Indian Journal of Experimental Biology (Vol. 30, (issue 12), pages: 1158-1162, 1992) which stated that the LD50 for Naja oxiana was the most toxic/venomous (mice, 0.18 mg/kg SC and lowest reported value was 0.10 mg/kg). Along with that, the mortality rate for untreated Naja oxiana bites are the highest among all Naja species (70-80%). N.oxiana also produced the lowest known lethal dose (LCLo) of 0.005 mg/kg, the lowest among all cobra species ever recorded, derived from an individual case of poisoning by intracerebroventricular injection. Following N. oxiana and N. philippinensis are N. melanoleuca at 0.225 mg/kg SC and then N. samarensis at 0.23 mg/kg. The water cobras (N. annulata and N. christyi also have very toxic venoms, but no SC values are listed. Only intraperitoneal (IP) values of 0.143 mg/kg for N. annulata and 0.12 mg/kg for N. christyi. IP values tend to be generally lower (more toxic than subcutaneous values, so it would be unfair to compare their IP results to the subcutaneous (SC) results of other Naja species. Then I have heard that (without solid evidence) that Naja nivea is the most venomous, although their murine SC LD50 range anywhere from 0.4 mg/kg (Toxicon, Vol. 5, issue 1, page 47, 1967) to 0.72 mg/kg (Australian venoms and toxins Databse). So which is the most venomous? To me it seems obvious that it is the Caspian or Oxus cobra (Naja oxiana), followed by the Philippine cobra (Naja philippinensis). What do you think or know? I've noticed that the Australian venom and toxin Database seems to have higher LD50 values for all snakes across the board. For example, for the black mamba IP value of 0.01 mg/kg is listed (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/004101018890219X) and Ernst and Zug et al 1996, list a SC value of 0.05 mg/kg for the black mamba. While the Australian venom and toxin Database listed much less toxic LD50's. So there seems to be a lot of variation. 2014-01-23 What's Your Favorite Venomous Snake? 2013-11-13 Deadliest Bite? 2013-09-16 IF the science of self-immunization for a snake envenomation was proven/perfected what is the least benefit(percentage) you would accept before practicing it on yourself? 2013-06-06 how did you learn to keep venomous reptiles? 2013-03-02 View All Survey Questions Have a good idea for a VenomousReptiles.org Survey question? Enter your idea!
In your oppinion, what is the biggest threat to herpetology?   Posted: Jul 21, 2009   (210 votes, 16 comments) by Ptk   Habitat destruction   Ignorant legislation, loss of ownership rights, bans, etc.   Unethical breeders selling/breeding poor genetic stock   Over collecting, culling wild populations, roundups.   Media over sensationalizing envenomations, escapes, fear mongering, etc.   Diease, poisons, toxins, pollution.   Youtube "free handling" wanna be's     (210 votes, 16 comments)
Survey Results
Habitat destruction 27% (56) Ignorant legislation, loss of ownership rights, bans, etc. 49% (102) Unethical breeders selling/breeding poor genetic stock 0% (0) Over collecting, culling wild populations, roundups. 7% (14) Media over sensationalizing envenomations, escapes, fear mongering, etc. 13% (27) Diease, poisons, toxins, pollution. 1% (3) Youtube "free handling" wanna be's 4% (8)
Survey Comments
Wanting to say this Biggest threat to Herpetology is these self righteous herpetologist/zookeepers like Jim Harrison for the greatest example. They dwell on finding ways to stir up people who know nothing about reptiles into thinking they are the ONLY ones qualified to keep. Like for an example yesterday August 21st 2015...I'm sure we all heard of the bush viper incident in Michigan right? Kentucky reptile zoo was the closest zoo that kept antivenom that had been used for bush viper bites. KRZ sent the antivenom to Michigan for the kid...Kristen Wiley decides to go to Fox News to do an interview on how KRZ is a non profit organization sending antivenom to this kid in Michigan to save his life...that was not needed...they love starting shit. They love the idea of them looking like heros. While all Jim Harrison does is talk shit about respectable breeders like Tom C (which I have proof) and how free handlers are no good to society and we are criminals lol. He's a punk Posted by BlackPhaseTim on August 22, 2015 Forgot If there was not dumbass and unethical breeders and keepers, the reactionaries in Congress, county, and city hall would not have to pass laws......... Posted by DarthCane on January 19, 2010 First off have to say ignorance....too many people want to have a Gaboon, Eastern, Cobra, Mamba, etc because they think these animals are cool but do not go through the discipline process of learning and educating themselves on biology and herpetology, 2ndly the morons having rattlesnake roundups and those unethical venomoid keepers..... Posted by DarthCane on January 19, 2010 Biggest Threat Ignorance. Period. Posted by FSB on November 19, 2009 herpetology! the question asks about herpetology not herpetoculture, so the biggest threat to the science is OBVIOUSLY habitat destruction, not ignorant legislation which actually could be looped in to habitat destruction. good survey Posted by Irishcroc on September 9, 2009 Hard to choose. I wish there was an option for 'All of the above'. I feel that all those things hurt the hobby in one way or the other. Posted by JimmyD1318 on August 26, 2009 habitat destruction how can the snakes live without popely space? their whole habitat has been destroyed, how can they reproduce or hunt? lilisean@hotmail.com Posted by liliana on August 14, 2009 Back to the point While I agree accurate wording is important, you are wrong about these things not effecting Herpetology. You can quote your dicktionary all you want but after we round them all up, destory their habitat and make owning one a crime - what will you study? Ask any Palentologist if they would rather study fossils or the real thing? Herps are living creatures (for the time being) and ever changing, movement, behavior, etc. Think of what we would miss not having them to study. The folks here can tell you how much research was started by those that are or once were one time hobbist. But I suppose you will tell me that we can still "study" them from books, web clips and cave drawings!!! Posted by Viper-ess on August 12, 2009 My thoughts exactly Well said Riley.The difference is not well understood by the average keeper. Posted by pictigaster1 on August 11, 2009 How is Herpetology threatened, period? Herpetology is an academic, scientific study of reptiles and amphibians. It is not "herpetoculture", or field "herping", or keeping any said taxa as a "pet". Keeper rights are threatened due largely to the general public not being herp keepers, so they do not care if a minority get stepped on. Toxins, pollution, media issues, etc.. all have places in legislative, conservation, and public image..but do not have anything specifically to do with the definition of herpetology. If we do not understand our own subject matter, and use words correctly, how can we hope that the public at large or the media ever will? Posted by Varanoid on August 10, 2009 Habitat Destruction Once the viral human specie becomes so many ALL below it in the food chain will cease to exist. THEN WHAT DIFFERENCE WILL LAWS MAKE????????????? Or anything else.... But I certainly don't expect that same stupid virus to figure this out. Posted by Voided37 on August 7, 2009 survey comments Talk about not knowing which one to choose. I would have been happy picking more than one. I do not know which is worse or which one leads to the other, over legislature or oversensationalism in the media. It reminds me of the question"which came first the chicken or the egg?" Posted by friendofgareptiles on August 3, 2009 "Herpetology" certinaly is hurt by habitat destruction. If you have, lets say, a horridus den site that you visit and you show up one day to see the land ripped dry and a house sitting upon the site of what used to be a den I would sya that is certinaly a hurtful thing to have had happen. All the rest only pertains to the hobby in which case I think each aspect has its varied degrees of impact. Media is/will end up killing the herp trade the way things are going. The least impactful part if round ups/collecting BUT even that can be tied into current problems, just like the guy busted selling countless Eastern Massys. Posted by Atrox788 on July 30, 2009 Herpehobby Herpetology is un hurt by any of this .But herpetahobby herpetaculture or any private keeping of snakes by other than aza is scarred for life.Tho loss of habitat might bother a few snakes I would think.So would overcollecting Herpetology tho will live on even if all else fails. Posted by pictigaster1 on July 23, 2009 I would say the same as SoggyBottomSerpents above me has, the youtube wannabes do stupid things and in doing so end up injured or worse, this then leads to the over sensationalizing of the incident by media. Then that leads our uneducated legisleture to make absolutly outragous ties to the true herpetology fans and keepers, who practice safety as a top priority. This is the same exact formula that helps other bans on exotic animals to get passed. This is why we need to support organizations like REXANO to help preserve our hobbies and careers in the exotic animal world. Posted by vanerka on July 23, 2009 Wow Where's the 'all of the above' choice? The youtube and media problems lead right to ignorant legislation, habitat loss leads to unhealthy crowded populations which breed disease and increased frequency of negative public interactions...we all really need to work together on maintaining the highest levels of responsibility for ourselves and others as well. The guy Who's bein irresponsible may end up ruining something BIG TIME if we just turn a blind eye. Its WAY past time for us to band together before we lose it all. Posted by SoggyBottomSerpents on July 23, 2009 To post a comment, you must be logged in. If you are not a member, become one now!