VenomousReptiles.org Survey

Survey Question	Current Survey Question Should hobbyists ever free handle venomous reptiles with their hands? Recent Surveys Most venomous/toxic Naja species in the world? I have read that the Philippine cobra is the most venomous (mice, 0.2 mg/kg SC with the lowest reported value being 0.14 mg/kg SC) (Brown, 1973). I have recently, come across something in the Indian Journal of Experimental Biology (Vol. 30, (issue 12), pages: 1158-1162, 1992) which stated that the LD50 for Naja oxiana was the most toxic/venomous (mice, 0.18 mg/kg SC and lowest reported value was 0.10 mg/kg). Along with that, the mortality rate for untreated Naja oxiana bites are the highest among all Naja species (70-80%). N.oxiana also produced the lowest known lethal dose (LCLo) of 0.005 mg/kg, the lowest among all cobra species ever recorded, derived from an individual case of poisoning by intracerebroventricular injection. Following N. oxiana and N. philippinensis are N. melanoleuca at 0.225 mg/kg SC and then N. samarensis at 0.23 mg/kg. The water cobras (N. annulata and N. christyi also have very toxic venoms, but no SC values are listed. Only intraperitoneal (IP) values of 0.143 mg/kg for N. annulata and 0.12 mg/kg for N. christyi. IP values tend to be generally lower (more toxic than subcutaneous values, so it would be unfair to compare their IP results to the subcutaneous (SC) results of other Naja species. Then I have heard that (without solid evidence) that Naja nivea is the most venomous, although their murine SC LD50 range anywhere from 0.4 mg/kg (Toxicon, Vol. 5, issue 1, page 47, 1967) to 0.72 mg/kg (Australian venoms and toxins Databse). So which is the most venomous? To me it seems obvious that it is the Caspian or Oxus cobra (Naja oxiana), followed by the Philippine cobra (Naja philippinensis). What do you think or know? I've noticed that the Australian venom and toxin Database seems to have higher LD50 values for all snakes across the board. For example, for the black mamba IP value of 0.01 mg/kg is listed (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/004101018890219X) and Ernst and Zug et al 1996, list a SC value of 0.05 mg/kg for the black mamba. While the Australian venom and toxin Database listed much less toxic LD50's. So there seems to be a lot of variation. 2014-01-23 What's Your Favorite Venomous Snake? 2013-11-13 Deadliest Bite? 2013-09-16 IF the science of self-immunization for a snake envenomation was proven/perfected what is the least benefit(percentage) you would accept before practicing it on yourself? 2013-06-06 how did you learn to keep venomous reptiles? 2013-03-02 View All Survey Questions Have a good idea for a VenomousReptiles.org Survey question? Enter your idea!
In your professional opinion what state has the biggest population of Canebrake Rattlesnakes?   Posted: Jul 05, 2010   (72 votes, 11 comments) by stockbridgeherper   Alabama   Georgia   Mississippi   Louisiana   South Carolina   Louisiana   North Carolina     (72 votes, 11 comments)
Survey Results
Alabama 3% (2) Georgia 56% (40) Mississippi 7% (5) Louisiana 7% (5) South Carolina 19% (14) Louisiana 0% (0) North Carolina 8% (6)
Survey Comments
canes I chose Georgia, simply because of what Ive heard.I know louisiana is virtually devoid of them. The only one Ive ever found was a D.O.R. in Oklahoma, near the arkansas border. Posted by xvenomx on July 27, 2010 levity There is nothing wrong with levity and I myself have settled in for the long wait for the next exalted paper changing rattlesnake taxonomy so someone can make a name for themselves. Then we will wait the requisite X amount of years for the next paper and so on. However, as I said in my previous response, this survey did not mention "atricaudatus" at all, and is therefore, a valid survey. You are correct that this distinction causes much contention in the herpetology community as a whole. You are also correct that this survey asks for opinion when it should be about facts. That being said, maybe someone can tell me what state cares enough about venomous snakes to have surveyed their current populations enough to be able to answer this survey with facts. I can tell you. Not one! PS Just for fun - if they changed the survey to be about "Timber Rattlesnakes" you would find that the people in Washington and Oregon states have the "right" to chime in as that is a commonly used "COMMON NAME" for Crotalus oreganus out there. I have even heard it used in SoCal for Crotalus helleri. Posted by Buzztail1 on July 21, 2010 Canebrakes I've been called many things over the years, but never an old timer....LOL! I guess it was just a matter of time. Posted by agkistrodude on July 19, 2010 Karl, I sincerely hope you don't find my remarks to be 'snobbery' and if you do then I suggest you go back and re-read what I said. It was in jest. I realize there are still a number of herpers out there, especially the old timers, who still recognize canebrakes as a valid subspecies. Heck I've even seen people saying they should be elevated to full species status. It is such a hot and contentious topic though that I thought I'd bring a little brevity to the argument that people get so sensitive about (apparently). Posted by Chance on July 19, 2010 nitpicking Alright gentlemen, if you wish to pick things apart, then the correct answer would be Virginia. Why Virginia? Because Virginia is the one state which still legally recognizes Canebrake Rattlesnakes as separate from Timber Rattlesnakes and protects Canebrakes but not Timbers. Therefore, Canebrake Rattlesnakes have a legal existence as supported by Virginia state law. Crotalus horridus atricaudatus does not exist in currently accepted nomenclature. However, Canebrakes do, in fact, exist as "common names" are not subject to scientific agreement. To look down your nose at people who continue to use previously accepted common names is not an indication of education but of snobbery - not the best trait to be showing the rest of the world. Posted by Buzztail1 on July 19, 2010 Tim, I was mostly poking fun at the folks who still hang on to the "atricaudatus" subspecies that is, alas, no longer a valid nor recognized subspecies (by the herpetological community at large). The other point I was making was that this isn't really an opinion survey because it's asking about a fact: which state has the most 'canebrake' forms of the timber? No opinion necessary, just hard numbers. Are the timbers here in Arkansas or over in OK canes, or are they timbers? Where is the arbitrary distinction made? I guess it doesn't really matter since there are no canes, so the question should be "Which state has the highest population of Crotalus horridus?" and that, again, is not an opinion question. Posted by Chance on July 16, 2010 Canebrakes. I've lived in both S.C. and Georgia alot of my life and found more canes in S.C. and more E.D.B.'s in Ga. in my experiences. Posted by varivenom on July 16, 2010 CANEBRAKES Chance, I believe canes are still in possession of there own ssp. classification if I'm not mistaken. Go ahead check it out let us know. Posted by varivenom on July 16, 2010 Lowland Form of Timber Rattlesnakes, aka Canebrake. I voted for Georgia, as it is a much larger State than South Carolina, and about 3/4 of Georgia has the "Canebrake" or lowland form of the Timber Rattlesnake. Posted by Cro on July 12, 2010 Canebrakes Yeah, just a locality thing, up in NY we called them "Timbers" down here in SC it's Canebrakes, just like a Sunfish is a Bream and a Bluegill is a Rock Bass. All it really says is that whoever wrote this survey is a Southerner! Posted by MackeySC on July 11, 2010 Maybe I'm missing something, but this isn't exactly a opinion question is it? And besides, the answer would be "neither." There are no canebrakes remember?? ;) Posted by Chance on July 8, 2010 To post a comment, you must be logged in. If you are not a member, become one now!