VenomousReptiles.org Survey

Survey Question	Current Survey Question Should hobbyists ever free handle venomous reptiles with their hands? Recent Surveys Most venomous/toxic Naja species in the world? I have read that the Philippine cobra is the most venomous (mice, 0.2 mg/kg SC with the lowest reported value being 0.14 mg/kg SC) (Brown, 1973). I have recently, come across something in the Indian Journal of Experimental Biology (Vol. 30, (issue 12), pages: 1158-1162, 1992) which stated that the LD50 for Naja oxiana was the most toxic/venomous (mice, 0.18 mg/kg SC and lowest reported value was 0.10 mg/kg). Along with that, the mortality rate for untreated Naja oxiana bites are the highest among all Naja species (70-80%). N.oxiana also produced the lowest known lethal dose (LCLo) of 0.005 mg/kg, the lowest among all cobra species ever recorded, derived from an individual case of poisoning by intracerebroventricular injection. Following N. oxiana and N. philippinensis are N. melanoleuca at 0.225 mg/kg SC and then N. samarensis at 0.23 mg/kg. The water cobras (N. annulata and N. christyi also have very toxic venoms, but no SC values are listed. Only intraperitoneal (IP) values of 0.143 mg/kg for N. annulata and 0.12 mg/kg for N. christyi. IP values tend to be generally lower (more toxic than subcutaneous values, so it would be unfair to compare their IP results to the subcutaneous (SC) results of other Naja species. Then I have heard that (without solid evidence) that Naja nivea is the most venomous, although their murine SC LD50 range anywhere from 0.4 mg/kg (Toxicon, Vol. 5, issue 1, page 47, 1967) to 0.72 mg/kg (Australian venoms and toxins Databse). So which is the most venomous? To me it seems obvious that it is the Caspian or Oxus cobra (Naja oxiana), followed by the Philippine cobra (Naja philippinensis). What do you think or know? I've noticed that the Australian venom and toxin Database seems to have higher LD50 values for all snakes across the board. For example, for the black mamba IP value of 0.01 mg/kg is listed (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/004101018890219X) and Ernst and Zug et al 1996, list a SC value of 0.05 mg/kg for the black mamba. While the Australian venom and toxin Database listed much less toxic LD50's. So there seems to be a lot of variation. 2014-01-23 What's Your Favorite Venomous Snake? 2013-11-13 Deadliest Bite? 2013-09-16 IF the science of self-immunization for a snake envenomation was proven/perfected what is the least benefit(percentage) you would accept before practicing it on yourself? 2013-06-06 how did you learn to keep venomous reptiles? 2013-03-02 View All Survey Questions Have a good idea for a VenomousReptiles.org Survey question? Enter your idea!
If the procedure for acquiring antivenom were simplified, would you stock it for the animals you keep?   Posted: Apr 02, 2010   (108 votes, 9 comments) by venom   yes, absolutely   yes, if it were cheap enough   possibly   no, still not worth it     (108 votes, 9 comments)
Survey Results
yes, absolutely 61% (66) yes, if it were cheap enough 31% (34) possibly 4% (4) no, still not worth it 4% (4)
Survey Comments
Malpractice Comment. Marty, this is not the case in my experience. When I was envenomated by an Indian Cobra in 2003, the MDs gave me AV that was not even indicated for the species(SAIMR Polyvalent from Riverbanks Zoo) , although they did warn my then fiancee that I may have a 50/50 chance of dying from anaphylaxis,I came out of the resp. failure after that until the species specific AV arrived, I think from TN or KY(probably from you guys KRZ : ). The MD in the ER saved my life and it is my experience that if it comes between life&death they will do everything in their power to save you even if they are skeptical of someone saying they have been bitten by a cobra. Drew. Posted by elapidkeeper on April 12, 2010 Keeping Own AV. Obtaining an IND # and APHIS permit is simple, thanks to the advice of Matt Harris and Jim&Kristen Harrison,I just got mine. The real challenge is reaching the manufacturer's...Thailand is in a state of emergency right now&CSL pretty much ignores foreign inquiries. SAVP has been very helpful though, which produces the main AV I am interested in for, in my opinion (and definetly in my collection) the most dangerous snake in the world,the Black Mamba. Drew. Posted by elapidkeeper on April 12, 2010 Having your own antivenom would not have an effect on the price and amount of antivenom produced in other countries. Also antivenom banks are only good for a back up plan. If you have a bad envenomation a delay of 1 to 2 hours could lead to death or organ damage. Just another myth as to why not have antivenom. Jim Harrison Posted by JHarrison on April 12, 2010 No I would not keeping anti-venom is not a good idea for the private keeper...venom banks are a better choice. Having most private keepers having/hording there own stock would make anti-venom more expensive and harder to come by. Posted by TheVenomousEndeavours on April 11, 2010 For some... I might stock it for some of the more dangerous species I keep (like the forest cobras), but probably not for anything that I think I would be very unlikely to be bitten by (like my saw-scale) or any of the native snakes for which antivenom is readily availible. Posted by LarryDFishel on April 9, 2010 Antivenom In the past, I kept a supply of the Wyeth Antivenin (Crotalidae) Polyvalent, but it has now all expired. If I had the money, I would keep a supply of the Mexican Bioclon Antivipmyn Polyvalent, as I think it is better than CroFab. Posted by Cro on April 9, 2010 Thanks Jim. Posted by agkistrodude on April 8, 2010 It is a myth that if you have antivenom doctors would not use it on you. People use this as away to avoid the issue of maintaining antivenom. To get an IND number you must have a doctor sign off that he will give the drug if needed. So if you have an IND number and have legally imported your antivenom there is no way that it would not be used on you. The lawsuit would come into play if the doctors refused to use it and you died. Jim Harrison Posted by JHarrison on April 6, 2010 I didn't vote. I would have said no, but not because it's not worth it. Because I only keep GA natives,and the hosp keeps it. If I could keep exotics I would say yes, and would have been keeping it all along anyways.I have a question though that nobody has answered for me over the years. If you do keep exotics and the proper anti venom, would the ER doctors even touch it? I've heard stories that the doctors wouldn't want to be responsible, not knowing where you got it from,how long you've had it, how you acquired it, if it has been stored properly, etc., and are basically afraid of a malpractice lawsuit. Unless maybe you get it and let your doctor keep it? Just wondering,I've never had a use for exotic anti venom, and this has been a question of mine for a long time. Take care, Marty Posted by agkistrodude on April 4, 2010 To post a comment, you must be logged in. If you are not a member, become one now!