VenomousReptiles.org Survey

Survey Question	Current Survey Question Should hobbyists ever free handle venomous reptiles with their hands? Recent Surveys Most venomous/toxic Naja species in the world? I have read that the Philippine cobra is the most venomous (mice, 0.2 mg/kg SC with the lowest reported value being 0.14 mg/kg SC) (Brown, 1973). I have recently, come across something in the Indian Journal of Experimental Biology (Vol. 30, (issue 12), pages: 1158-1162, 1992) which stated that the LD50 for Naja oxiana was the most toxic/venomous (mice, 0.18 mg/kg SC and lowest reported value was 0.10 mg/kg). Along with that, the mortality rate for untreated Naja oxiana bites are the highest among all Naja species (70-80%). N.oxiana also produced the lowest known lethal dose (LCLo) of 0.005 mg/kg, the lowest among all cobra species ever recorded, derived from an individual case of poisoning by intracerebroventricular injection. Following N. oxiana and N. philippinensis are N. melanoleuca at 0.225 mg/kg SC and then N. samarensis at 0.23 mg/kg. The water cobras (N. annulata and N. christyi also have very toxic venoms, but no SC values are listed. Only intraperitoneal (IP) values of 0.143 mg/kg for N. annulata and 0.12 mg/kg for N. christyi. IP values tend to be generally lower (more toxic than subcutaneous values, so it would be unfair to compare their IP results to the subcutaneous (SC) results of other Naja species. Then I have heard that (without solid evidence) that Naja nivea is the most venomous, although their murine SC LD50 range anywhere from 0.4 mg/kg (Toxicon, Vol. 5, issue 1, page 47, 1967) to 0.72 mg/kg (Australian venoms and toxins Databse). So which is the most venomous? To me it seems obvious that it is the Caspian or Oxus cobra (Naja oxiana), followed by the Philippine cobra (Naja philippinensis). What do you think or know? I've noticed that the Australian venom and toxin Database seems to have higher LD50 values for all snakes across the board. For example, for the black mamba IP value of 0.01 mg/kg is listed (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/004101018890219X) and Ernst and Zug et al 1996, list a SC value of 0.05 mg/kg for the black mamba. While the Australian venom and toxin Database listed much less toxic LD50's. So there seems to be a lot of variation. 2014-01-23 What's Your Favorite Venomous Snake? 2013-11-13 Deadliest Bite? 2013-09-16 IF the science of self-immunization for a snake envenomation was proven/perfected what is the least benefit(percentage) you would accept before practicing it on yourself? 2013-06-06 how did you learn to keep venomous reptiles? 2013-03-02 View All Survey Questions Have a good idea for a VenomousReptiles.org Survey question? Enter your idea!
Thanks for voting! Your vote has been included in the results below. If one of your exotic(!) venomous snakes was to suddenly escape from your facility [you are certain that it has escaped from the building], what would your reaction be? You have already searched every inch of your property without any luck.   Posted: Dec 14, 2003   (487 votes, 15 comments) by Nightflight99
Survey Results
I would notify the appropriate authorities immediately 45% (221) I would wait a few days, then notify the authorities 4% (21) Holy smokes! I wouldn't know what to do 4% (21) I would keep on searching, but probably keep quiet about it 20% (95) I would definitely keep it to myself, and hope that it shows up sooner or later 7% (33) I don't keep any venomous reptiles at this time 20% (96)
Survey Comments
Too Vague I think the question is too vague. There are far too many possibilities that would need to be considered. For instance, if you keep all locally native species and live far from a heavily populated area, or if you keep exotics and live in a populated area. That would weigh heavily on the need to report or not. As far as the person that would not report for fear of a death sentence to the rest of the collection: That makes no sense to me. Who is going to execute your other snakes because one escaped? Or is it that you are keeping illegally? Either way, I don't think that animal control would kill your other snakes. If your keeping them illegally, they surely would be taken away from you though. Posted by oOCrotalusOo on March 30, 2004 Not Reporting Escaped Snakes To the person who said that you wouldn't report an escaped venomous snake because you might lose your other snakes,you have a lot of nerve. People like you are why the responsible keepers have a hard time. Your privilege to have these snakes(it's NOT a right)does not override the RIGHT to be safe of the rest of society.People like you are the reason that I would report anyone I find is keeping venomous snakes. You don't want to lose the rest of your snakes-well, isn't that special,nevermind that someone's pet or child could be bitten and suffer or die because of YOUR arrogance and selfishness.From reading on this site,your attitude appears to be quite typical,and that is why I will ALWAYS go out of my way to report anyone I know of keeping venomous or otherwise potentially deadly snakes to the authorities.Too bad if you lose them,just the same as you're saying "Too bad" if one gets loose and bites an innocent person,someone who never had any intention of being around or interacting with a venomous snake. Yes, YOU DO give other snake keepers a bad name.But I'm sure you don't care,as long as you can keep your venomous snakes.You obviously don't care if some unsuspecting person gets bitten either. Well, that being the case,I don't care if you lose your snakes. Posted by MeToo on March 18, 2004 HELP!!! I am from Romania, and among my indigenous and exotic harmless reptiles I have NoseHorned Vipers(Vipera ammodytes ammodytes & Vipera ammodytes montandoni), Common Adders(Vipera berus berus) & Meddow Adder(Vipera ursinii moldavica). Even though I do not have a permit to keep theese(in Romania the only permit you need is one for keeping protected species no mather of venomouse or not), my enclousers are 100% escape proof, and since I`ve started keeping venomouse snakes 4 years ago I have never lost one snake. Please, I`m desperate to talk to any amateur or professional herpetologist on email. My email is Bitis_arietans_arietans@yahoo.com Posted by Snake17 on January 12, 2004 survey i would just like to say this is the best web-site i have ever come across, the info about the snakes is incrdible,i have plenty freinds who share the same hobby as me ,they will most defintly be signing up to this yours very happy peter irvine.. Posted by pedro on January 12, 2004 Snake escape All of my venomous are found locally.So I wouldn't consider it a problem.But if I did keep exotics and one escaped,I would notify the authorities after I was certain that I wasn't going to find it myself. Marty Posted by Marty1st on January 4, 2004 Once upon a time David, I understand what you are saying about accidents happen and don't necessarily disagree with you about that. Fortunately for me, I kept a great many varieties of nonvenomous snakes and went through many iterations of the homemade cage before I got my first venomous snake. Having an Eastern Garter Snake give birth to 61 squirming little babies in a "Guaranteed Snake Proof Cage" (of my herp-phobic father's design) which had peg-board sides certainly was an eye opener. Since then, I have worked with many different cage systems and have always endeavored not to bring home anything I couldn't safely house. Unfortunately, as the "community" grows, more and more people buy reptiles that they have no idea how to keep, let alone how to properly house. On more than one occasion at the latest venomous show that I attended, I had to talk a proud new venomous snake owner into buying a hook to go along with their new snake. They planned to keep their baby Southern Copperhead (or whatever else they might have gotten) in the 10 gallon tank that they bought with it for the rest of its life, just tossing in a mouse now and then. These people scare the crap out of me. They are the ones that get the press and lose their snakes, limbs, and lives. It is not the responsible, rational, people that are a danger to our ability to keep. It is the impulse buying, self-indulgent, ignorant public that all too many vendors are willing to sell to that will eventually shut down this "hobby". Just my opinion, Karl Posted by Buzztail1 on January 4, 2004 Ohmygawditgotloose! One of our snakes DID get loose a couple of years back. I discovered after I awoke a small pile of snake-crap on the floor, and all the way down the glass of the viv'. Such was the pressure exerted on the body of the animal when it was squeezing through the lid. Convinced after a thorough search of the entire house that it "was" outside, I contacted the local police first, then followed by informing all the neighbours on the street. The police asked for a picture of it so they knew what it looked like! (just how many snakes got out that day!!!???) After 8 hours searching, we still couldnt find it. Still not a time to panic, as this gets you nowhere. I then found some blood around the fireplace - yup!, the bugger had gone into the fireplace, through a small gap in the brickwork, and was BEHIND the drywall. Cost a fortune to remove the whole bloody wall and rebuild. Nobody got bit, and it wasn't deadly venomous. But the escape was treated with the same calm, methodical approach. Accidents do happen, and we are all slightly negligent at times. (although NONE of you will admit it, cos' you're ALL perfect - yeah right,and have been in the "game" for years! ) I haven't had any more escapes, nor do I intend to have any more. Not all of us can afford proper Neo' set-ups, or even decent 2nd-hand vivs. But,when you run a rescue and deal with many different reptiles, you have to make 90% of the equipment/enclosures etc. So, instead of having a bitch at my lack of suitable containers and apparent stupidity, if it bothers you that much, don't hesitate in sending me a check!!!(joke) My regards to you all, a safe and happy holiday season, oh, and I hope it doesn't happen to you. Posted by BanffshireBushman on December 29, 2003 If the snake was native to the state then no I wouldn't report it, but an Exotic species, most certainly would report it. Life is more valuble than conserquence.(spelled wrong) Posted by grappler on December 27, 2003 survey well i would not say that it would never happen things happen, but if it did i would have to do the right thing and contact the proper authorities, as much as i would hate to but if some body got bit by my snake with out the knowing there is a exotic venomous snake lose i dont think i could live with my self for sure if the bite was fatel Posted by elapidking81 on December 26, 2003 Eastern DB and lost snakes If I was going to intentionally take a bite for an Eastern DB I would make sure I was somewhere I could get imidiate help. Now a Mojave would be more of a problem. Or a Gabon or Cobra, all of which I have. Half a million or more would set me up for life. Worth the experence. Also, I am a 230 lb man. As to the second question. I live in the country and am fairly far from many people. Most of my dangerous snakes are locals anyway, or would not last the winter. If one of my Cobras got away, I would report it. A Massasauga, or Timber Rattler I would leave go. But what if a cage full of Beauty Snakes got away, several gravid. If they took root, they could take over the nich of some local critter. Should I report that. I picked beauty snakes because I believe they could live in Kansas, where I live. In other words I am probably more worried about the impact on the environment than on the impact on people. The local kids around here know my snakes well, and would not mess with my cobras, or gabons, etc., but would report them to me. In a city, though, I would have to report it. yudhi Posted by Yudhi on December 22, 2003 survey I would not sleep until that snake was found. I would notify the authorities and my neighbors as well. Your neighbors and the people that live around you do not choose to live with venomous animals for a reason, you need to have respect for them and their lives. What about their son that doesn't know what a sawscaled viper is? Do you want him to be the one to discover the snake. Anyone who would not take the proper action is not a good keeper and is hurting the name of those who do this correctly and safely. Keep this in mind when deciding to get a hot snake and in designing your enclosures and snake rooms. lets be responsible and show all the ignorant people that we are not "crazy" or "have a death wish," we just happen to see beauty in something that they dislike and we need to show them how awesome and important these animals are, through responsible and safe herp keeping, patients, conservation and education Posted by Crotalus64 on December 18, 2003 I'd notify the proper authorities. I'd be paying up my whole life if my animals bit someone I wouldn't want that to happen... Luckily my room is snake proof Posted by Snakeskin on December 14, 2003 First off let me say that in the few occassions that I have had an animal out of it's cage they have never been able to escape the room, even after 3 months. I also want to point out that any exotic snake that I have would not survive long in Wisconsin especially now with 8 inches of snow on the ground. All of that aside and what you suggest did actually happen, I honestly must say I would not report it. To do so would be to issue a death warrant to all my animals and would include fines on a per day basis. In closing I want to say keep em locked, keep em safe and keep quiet. Posted by vettesherps on December 14, 2003 THIS SCENARIO WOULD NEVER HAPPEN because I keep all of my animals in secure padlocked cages within a room that has a locking outer door that is sealed with a strip of wood at the bottom. This is the choice I would have picked if available. Posted by Crotalus75 on December 13, 2003 I would have no choice in notifying authorities. Being the only private party in my state that has permits to keep venomous. If the animal was found or bit someone I would get the blame even if it was not mine and belonged to someone that was keeping it illegally. My inventory is checked regularly, and detailed information is readily available to authorities. We as keepers should be responsible for our charges. It is our responsibility to make sure that this type of incident nevers happens. Posted by midwestherp1 on December 13, 2003 To post a comment, you must be logged in. If you are not a member, become one now!