VenomousReptiles.org Survey

Survey Question	Current Survey Question Should hobbyists ever free handle venomous reptiles with their hands? Recent Surveys Most venomous/toxic Naja species in the world? I have read that the Philippine cobra is the most venomous (mice, 0.2 mg/kg SC with the lowest reported value being 0.14 mg/kg SC) (Brown, 1973). I have recently, come across something in the Indian Journal of Experimental Biology (Vol. 30, (issue 12), pages: 1158-1162, 1992) which stated that the LD50 for Naja oxiana was the most toxic/venomous (mice, 0.18 mg/kg SC and lowest reported value was 0.10 mg/kg). Along with that, the mortality rate for untreated Naja oxiana bites are the highest among all Naja species (70-80%). N.oxiana also produced the lowest known lethal dose (LCLo) of 0.005 mg/kg, the lowest among all cobra species ever recorded, derived from an individual case of poisoning by intracerebroventricular injection. Following N. oxiana and N. philippinensis are N. melanoleuca at 0.225 mg/kg SC and then N. samarensis at 0.23 mg/kg. The water cobras (N. annulata and N. christyi also have very toxic venoms, but no SC values are listed. Only intraperitoneal (IP) values of 0.143 mg/kg for N. annulata and 0.12 mg/kg for N. christyi. IP values tend to be generally lower (more toxic than subcutaneous values, so it would be unfair to compare their IP results to the subcutaneous (SC) results of other Naja species. Then I have heard that (without solid evidence) that Naja nivea is the most venomous, although their murine SC LD50 range anywhere from 0.4 mg/kg (Toxicon, Vol. 5, issue 1, page 47, 1967) to 0.72 mg/kg (Australian venoms and toxins Databse). So which is the most venomous? To me it seems obvious that it is the Caspian or Oxus cobra (Naja oxiana), followed by the Philippine cobra (Naja philippinensis). What do you think or know? I've noticed that the Australian venom and toxin Database seems to have higher LD50 values for all snakes across the board. For example, for the black mamba IP value of 0.01 mg/kg is listed (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/004101018890219X) and Ernst and Zug et al 1996, list a SC value of 0.05 mg/kg for the black mamba. While the Australian venom and toxin Database listed much less toxic LD50's. So there seems to be a lot of variation. 2014-01-23 What's Your Favorite Venomous Snake? 2013-11-13 Deadliest Bite? 2013-09-16 IF the science of self-immunization for a snake envenomation was proven/perfected what is the least benefit(percentage) you would accept before practicing it on yourself? 2013-06-06 how did you learn to keep venomous reptiles? 2013-03-02 View All Survey Questions Have a good idea for a VenomousReptiles.org Survey question? Enter your idea!
Thanks for voting! Your vote has been included in the results below. Where do you see the future of venomous herpetoculture in ten years from now?   Posted: Nov 01, 2003   (467 votes, 12 comments) by Nightflight99
Survey Results
It will be even greater than it is now, with more states allowing people to keep venomous reptiles 11% (51) It will be about the same as it is today, with many keepers struggling to maintain their privilege to keep venomous reptiles 22% (104) By that time, there will be a Federal permit system in place 12% (55) With the constant changes in legalities, there will be very few places where you will be able to keep venomous reptiles legally 33% (155) By that time, there will likely be a federal ban in place that will prohibit the keeping of venomous reptiles altogether 13% (59) I don't know enough about the scene to have an opinion about this topic 9% (43)
Survey Comments
With the lack of understanding of reptiles in general, not to mention unfair/fear-enhanced media coverage, I belive that most federal leglislation reguarding keeping of venomous snakes will be prohibitive. There is little that we as Reptile keepers(venomous or not) can do but to ammend local by-laws. I have been trying to ammend the by-laws in the district/area where I live (Ontario Canada)and have ran into nothing but uneducated, fear driven bureaucrats.It has been a slow process. I am not giving up though. I will continue to play their game and try to educate, with a bit of luck I hope to ammend the by-laws and their personal bias. Posted by charlie1per on November 24, 2003 I don't know enough about the laws and legislations in the US, but I fear over here in Europe it'll all be over soon if WE don't act fast to preserve the hobby - Peter Posted by Snakeskin on November 23, 2003 I voted that things would be the same as it is now. Even with all the people starting to accept our unique pets, there are still going to be just as many people with nothing more to offer than fear and ignorance. The harder we fight for our right to keep venomous pets, the harder they are going to push to have those rights taken away from us. Too many people think that having a venomous animal in the same neighborhood automatically means that they are going to die from a bite from it. Stupid uneducated people cause more pain & problems for the hotherp lover, than our animals ever cause them. Posted by Cricket on November 18, 2003 I look at it this way......wether there are laws or not, I will keep my hots. I am not trying to rock the boat or sound radical: but I will not bend. And I will not be bullied by government ignorance. Being as I live in Texas, where the laws are somewhat lenient to my knowledge.......I'm happy. Posted by CASCABELLADONNA on November 18, 2003 What I think I think the main reason that the restrictions will become so great is the fact that a lot of people are ignorant to the fact that not everyone likes dogs and cats. Having or owning a reptile is a "forbidden" thing to do in the eyes of most people and add to that the fear that many people have of reptiles in general, does not create a good cup of tea. More and more towns are putting ordinances into effect banning or limiting the possession of the animals that mean so much to many of us. We have to educate ignorance so that it will change into wonder and intrigue thus creating a comfortable atmosphere when the mear word "snake" is overheard by someone and they are not panic stricken. Just thought I would throw in my two cents. Think what you will. Posted by LordChristensen on November 15, 2003 Let's be realistic Looking at this issue from a realistic vantage, how can we be allowed to go on in this way? Legislators and lobbiest consistantly ignore important facts. Do they seem concerned with the FACT that there are 380,000 violent dog attacks each year? No. They couldn't care less. How many of you live in an area where stray dogs and cats are a major problem? Locally the animal control officers seldom even catch a stray themselves. I have been told on several occasions that they will pick up the animal if I catch it. Last I checked, I didn't make $15.00 an hour to catch strays!! We are under seige and have little hope to survive it. In NM all the related laws passed (reptile rescue or collection) are blatantly in support of the rattlesnake roundups!! Check it out at Lexus/Nexus or the NMFG site. When the powers that be won't concern themselves with the MASSIVE amount of dog attacks or the slaughter of helpless snakes, what makes anyone think that we will get the positive attention we need? End of story, they don't like snakes of any kind and won't do anything to help us. I agree with a previous post and HOPE that I will be able to work somewhere (besides a round up) that will allow me to work with these wonderful animals. It is clearly apparent that they will slowly take away our rights to keep any reptiles. The steps they have taken are forebodings of things to come. Thank you for reading my rant. David Furphy AKN Venom & Exotics Alamogordo NM Posted by Amabilis on November 12, 2003 Lets be real. It's only a matter of time before the powers that be decide to take our right to keep hots. We can see the precursors of this legislation peeking around the corner already. We live in a society where those in charge are making every effort to sterilize all aspects of life for us. My hope is that by then I will be working for (or doing research with) a licensed institution where I will be able to obtain some sort of permit to keep these guys. I hate to be pessimistic, but some of the indicators that I see concern me. We are in the vast minority. As a rule the general public and most government officials fear and misunderstand these animals that we love so much. This is a shame, because for many of us this is not just a casual interest or hobby like building model airplanes. For many of us this is and always has been a major part of our lives. Posted by Crotalus75 on November 3, 2003 Only thing is that most lobbyists and politicians are not going to be hot crazy. More than likely, somewhat geeky and stay away from that one. Posted by grappler on November 2, 2003 Come Together If we don't come and work together I only see a negative outcome. We need to get more powerful lobbyists and litigators on our side to sharpen our odds. Posted by Jont52 on November 2, 2003 Depends on how resposible we are. If we can stay out of the hospitals and morgues from bites, then all should be fine. Posted by grappler on November 1, 2003 If only........ There is a large percentage that appear to be looking on the down side. I would like to be optimistic too, and like everyone else out there, wish that the hot herp public would be in much greater numbers than it is today. BUT, I'm afraid I have to be realistic, so I voted with " It will possibly remain the same...with everyone struggling to have the right." I would have no objection though, to the law clamping down on the dangerous few folk who want to keep venomous for all the wrong reasons. For example: I operate a reptile rescue in the UK, and recently I had a call from our local authority reporting that a drug dealer who had been busted, had a large snake in an aquarium - no lid, just a sheet of plywood and some heavy books holding it down - turned out it was highly venomous. The drugs were kept IN the tank, along with the snake as security. So, it's scum like those, that puts the future of anyone genuine (like me and you) from renewing the DWA licence. If a country decided to issue a federal permit (be it UK, Europe, or the US), then to me, it would not be such a bad thing. Some laws remain too relaxed, and that just lets normal joe public take advantage. Then he F**ks up along the way 'cos he doesn't really know what he's doing, and that in turn affects us. Maybe you guys have a different view, and don't like the idea of more restraint. Does this survey have an eerie similarity to the one posted on July 1st 2003 ? I could have voted for 4 seperate boxes, that would all have been applicable. My long winded rant is over - for now at least. Posted by BanffshireBushman on November 1, 2003 I hope things don't change to much, at least for Virginia. If the ACLU has anything to do with it, we are in trouble. Posted by cottonmouth on November 1, 2003 To post a comment, you must be logged in. If you are not a member, become one now!