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Hunting with Irwin/O'Shea
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by Buzztail1 on January 1, 2001
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I have hunted/caught/kept rattlesnakes for more than 25 years. Not a long time compared to some of the other people who frequent this site. Tonight I watched Steve Irwin crawl face-first into an atrox den and freehandle a four footer out of its den and hand it off to his wife while he grabbed another. I know that he will do more outrageous stuff as this show continues. On other shows, I watched Rick O'Shea almost cut a horridus in half with a pair of Pillstrom Tongs apparently out of fear that the snake would climb the tongs and get him and yet another time, he got bit by a Stilleto Snake because he grabbed a snake at night that he couldn't identify. Why is it that these are the guys who are representing the "average hot keeper" to the general public? Don't get me wrong, I am still watching the show and I LOVE to see all the different snakes that they "find." But DAMN! Don't we have anybody that is reasonably safe AND marketable? Karl
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RE: Hunting with Irwin/O'Shea
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by TIMFRIEDE on January 2, 2001
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Yep, BGF, he will be on the tube a couple times this year. He's the BEST in the biz. He'll be on w/ Mark on one show. I think you meant Mark, not Rick. I hope that BGF has the time to do more shows, the public needs him and so do we. Anyway, I do agree w/ you, the one show that put me over the top, was when SI was free-handling rattlesnakes(i.e., in his hand's), I'll never watch it again. It's called sellin-out, what a joke. There's " control" Bill Haast, and there's NO "control" SI. I've seen both. People just don't get it. I have nothing against Mark, he can be rough, but he has more control. People sometimes ask me, " wouldn't you put a rattlesnake in you're hands to be on TV", I say, " NEVER". I don't and will not, SELL-OUT. If I get tagged, which I have, I was in control, not the animal, HUGE difference. Karl, you struck a cord in me, thank-you, I needed to vent. Tim
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RE: Hunting with Irwin/O'Shea
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by Snakeman1982 on January 11, 2001
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who is this BGF guy that you are talking about. Please e-mail me and tell me because I am always interested in hearing about new herpetologists.
I agree that Steve Irwin might send the wrong message to the public about how easy it is to handle snakes but I have seen pictures of Bill Haast at the age of 16 handling a Timber Rattlesnake in his lap like it was a bunny rabbit. You can find that picture in his book, "Cobras in his Garden." It is an old book from 1965. And let's face it, I love Bill Haast and everything but he has been bitten so many times by cobras and other venomous snakes that it is rediculous, atleast 60 times. And Steve Irwin who everyone talks about being so daring has still never been envenomated. I love them both and Mark O'Shea.
I have free-handled rattlesnakes myself and have had a close shave or two on camera but I wouldn't consider that putting my life on the line or being careless. If you are going to be a herpetologist or just like to mess around with snakes you better expect to get bit. Just like I was taught in the Everglades when I worked with alligators for four and a half months. "It isn't if you get bit, but when."
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RE: Hunting with Irwin/O'Shea
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by pitviper on January 11, 2001
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Yesterday I saw Steve freehandle a C. Ruber, it's fun to see him do it but... it doesn't look good to the general public. He was a litte bit more careful when he found a canebrake, he used a "small tree"(don't know the word in english) to handle the snake.
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RE: Hunting with Irwin/O'Shea
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by TIMFRIEDE on January 11, 2001
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BGF is GOD, not new to the gig. He's one of the only people in the world that milks, and studies the venom to the highest degree. He's the ultimate master, and a darn nice guy. Now, lets clear some things up. Yes, I have Bill's book, and you are correct, but Bill has milked 2 million plus snakes. SI is a circus act, Bill is a scientist with a serious mission. He's been bit about 169 times, not 60. You claim this is ridiculous, you do not fully understand, think about it. There's a big diff. between milking and tailing for entertainment. I think B has been tagged about a dozen times, is he ridiculous? Hell, I'm right behind him, am I ridiculous? You need to correlate the situation. Thank-you, my friend, Tim.
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RE: Hunting with Irwin/O'Shea
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by TIMFRIEDE on January 11, 2001
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I never answered you're question. Bryan Grieg Fry is a biochemist, look up his site in Kingsnake.com, under antivenom. International Venom Database. Tim
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RE: Hunting with Irwin/O'Shea
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by Snakeman1982 on January 11, 2001
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I just got done checking out the Bio on Bryan Grieg Fry. He seems like a pretty cool 30 year old herp guy and I can't wait for his documentaries to start poping up this year. Thanks for the info on him.
I didn't mean that it was ridiculous for Bill Haast to get bit 169 times and I don't think that it is ridiculous for any person to get bit who seriously loves snakes and handles them for their conservation.
I care for all herpetologist that have the snakes good nature in mind.
Getting envenomated by snakes is an occupational hazard that people who handle venomous snakes have to deal with. I think that it is ridiculous for people to see Steve Irwin as somebody who is just playing around when he has a very good message that he is sending out to the world about how beautiful snakes and other creatures are. He always admits that if he gets bit then it is his fault and not the snakes and says that he is a professional and that no one who is unskilled should mess around with snakes.
As far as Steve Irwin's method of handling snakes goes, I also think that he takes a lot of risks with his personal safety. But let's face it, if he didn't then no one would have started watching the shows. Because he risks his life people watch the show because it is something that few people in the world will do. If he went out in the wild and caught a bunch of rattlesnakes that couldn't kill anybody with his tongs and snake hooks do you think that anybody would have started watching. Heck no. He would be seen like most herpetologists and wouldn't have been able to open up the eyes of the public. They would have switched the channel and he would have never gotten his message across to the public. But since he does put his life on the line and people pay attention he has helped do more for the conservation than anyone else I can think of.
Everyone on this websity probably knows who Bill Haast is because we are all crazy about snakes but the general public has no clue. At Northeastern State University which is full of educated people (obviously) only one person that I know has a clue as to who Bill Haast is. That is because he is my professor and is a herpetologist. But if you ask just about any redneck or professional person (even women that hate snakes) a good percentage of them are going to say that they know who Steve Irwin is. Although they might only know him as the Crocodile Hunter. Steve Irwin especially tries to target kids now with his series called Croc Files. This is to help get kids conservation minded at a young age and that is one of our biggest challenges that we have now. It is very hard to convince thick-headed adults, like you and I, to change our ways of thinking but kids can be easier to change over to conservationist ideas. Steve Irwin realizes this and knows that the best thing to do is teach kids that are young so they will grow up being conservation minded. Personally I think that he is doing a great job at everything. Thanks for your time.
Robert
Just to let you know. My professor friend at NSU doesn't really like Steve Irwin either. It always seems like the people that handle a lot of snakes don't like him because of the way that he does it. That is just fine with me though because people that handle snakes already love them and don't need convencing of their glory and beauty. But the people that Steve is helping are those that need to know the good messages about snakes.
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RE: Hunting with Irwin/O'Shea
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by TIMFRIEDE on January 11, 2001
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I do agree with certain parts of you're agruement, but not all of them. Number one, you say he has kids in mind, why would he do this? Put a rattlesnake in his hands, and move them into another cage, and then say, I better not do this, let me get a towel? Put a scorpion in his hands, and say, this is dangerous, don't try this(i.e., I milked about 5,000 last year), been there. Throw a gabonica on Leno's desk. Is this what kids should see???????????? If so, I got something to prove. Dude, it's sellin out. He has no special gift, except bs'in people. Most people here met Haast, talked to him, way beyond knowing who he is. Doesn't matter where you go college, most aren't that smart, you're assuming. Degree's mean shit, it's passion brother. If you don't believe me, I'll give you my pn, we'll talk one on one, that goes for you're professor's too. Tim(novice, 45 credits).
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RE: Hunting with Irwin/O'Shea
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by Snakeman1982 on January 12, 2001
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I certainly agree with you when you say that a degree doesn't mean shit when you talk about being a snake expert. Passion and experience is the key factor to being a good snake person. I catch and photograph a lot more snakes outside of college than I do when I am in. I have and will gain more experience from first hand interactions with wild herps than I ever could with the ones sitting on my lab table. So far college has kept me from catching as many snakes as I would like (only got to deal with 5 or so last semester) but I hope in the end it will help me land a job that allows me to get down and dirty in snake country so I can earn much more experience. All that I care about really is traveling and catching snakes, and if a college degree can convince someone that I deserve a job to do that then I'll get one.
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RE: Hunting with Irwin/O'Shea
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by TIMFRIEDE on January 12, 2001
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Right on bro., there ya go, you're right on. The thing with ven. is, no college can teach you to stay alive, or HOW to handle it. I taught myself, along with a ton of av, and good friends. That's my degree!!!! I go to school for different reasons, to study protein, not to master life or death. Nice job Rob, Tim.
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