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Western Hognose Envenomation
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by Phobos on January 26, 2005
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http://www.herpnet.net/bite/
Interesting report on commonly kept harmless "rear-fanged" snakes. It look like to me that the person let the Snake chomp him.
Best,
Al Coritz
neavb.org
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RE: Western Hognose Envenomation
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by tj on January 26, 2005
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More than likely he had a scent from something on his hand like a mouse, rat, toad, etc. to make it bite, then let it keep chewing on him. It's not a legitimate bite if you ask me. Hell, anything will try to bite you during a feeding response, especially if you let it. I'm still trying to figure out what the whole purpose of that was and what he was trying to prove.
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RE: Western Hognose Envenomation
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by tj on January 26, 2005
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Now I see that it was a feeding response. I wonder why he had his hand there in the first place and why he waited a few minutes to try to remove it. Oh well, why ask why.
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RE: Western Hognose Envenomation
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by Crotalus_Catcher on January 26, 2005
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OK, so instead of removing the snake, he just takes a picture of it biting him? What a nut. I think this was done on purpose and not a "feeding response" bite. But regardless, this is stunning becuase as a child this was the snake most frequently encountered. I always kept one or two around and constantly provoked them to get the hiss, "hood," or play dead, and NEVER had one strike or show the least sign of aggression. So very odd...guess I'm glad I never got bit though.
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RE: Western Hognose Envenomation
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by ALA_herp31 on January 26, 2005
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My god, this idiot must be crazy, I agree, it looks like he let the Snake bite him on purpose. Don’t know why someone would want to make themselves into some kind of test subject with this tho, this guy, who ever he is must have some kind of brain problem............Be safe ya’ll, Wally
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RE: Western Hognose Envenomation
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by Chance on January 26, 2005
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I think calling the guy names for letting the hognose chew on him and then document the results isn't necessarily fair. I think for a large number of people keeping these snakes as otherwise harmless, the results of this little 'experiment' may prove useful. Though they are by and large considered harmless, this obviously proves that with prolonged exposure, some pretty intense symptoms can occur. Why chastise him for letting the world know what can really come of a Heterodon bite? Granted, if he did this with a known dangerous snake, like a copperhead, cottonmouth, etc, it would be stupid. But people who keep copperheads, cottonmouths, etc generally aren't laymen or newbie keepers that consider them harmless (note the word "generally" here). The fact that a large number of herpers will flat out refuse to even call a hognose snake 'venomous' makes publishing the results of this experiment to everyone on the internet completely worthwhile...to me anyway. Those are my thoughts on the subject.
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RE: Western Hognose Envenomation
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by emtnurse on January 27, 2005
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I seen the pics, and was not impressed by this guy. The bite did look intentional. His purpose for this is unclear to me. This guy had to take the time to let the snake bite him, then grab a camera and take pics instead of removing the reptile. Very inapproiate for this guy and his actions do no justice for the venomous community. Bryan
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RE: Western Hognose Envenomation
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by Phobos on January 27, 2005
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Okay I brought it to your attention. Now I'll make a few comments.
I think Chance hit it right on the head. Although I don't think having anything chew on me for long periods, even my lady..LOL is not any fun. He did make a point; Hognose & other RF's can give you a serious envenomation if they get a hold of you for an extended period of time. What would an ER Doc think of that bite if it was done by an "Unknown" snake?
How many keepers out there know how to get a snake to let go once he's got you without doing harm to the snake?
Regardless of the questional methodology he made a valuable point and documented it for all to see.
Cheers!
Al
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RE: Western Hognose Envenomation
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by Snakeman1982 on January 27, 2005
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I believe that most people besides Chance are completely missing the purpose of this webpage. I absolutely love it and think it was an excellent thing to show, something that should have been done years ago. For a lay person performing the experiment it has quite a bit of scientific methods throughout the project and isn't as dangerous as everyone is letting on. It is a hognose, a species that won't kill you or cause permenant damage.
Many people, including academic herpetologists, often consider that effects of envenomation from hognose snakes are due to their diet of toads. In that the hognose eats the toads and the toxins from the toads get in the snake's mouth. When the snake bites the human the toad toxins (not snake venom) makes a bad reaction to the human. This 8 year captive snake pretty much disproves that, unless he has been feeding it toads.
I for one had never seen any good photographs of hognose envenomation, so it was excellent to see what these guys can really do. I didn't realize they could do that much.
Ever here of Karl P. Schmidt? He is the first herpetologist to die from a boomslang bite. In 1957 he got bit by a captive, recorded his symptoms in minute detail, and then died 28 hours later. Before that they weren't really considered venomous. I doubt anyone on this site should say he wasn't a good herpetologist or that his bite wasn't good science.
And what about herpetologist Robert Mertens who died from a captive twig snake in the 70's. Although not as famous as Schmidt, it is still valuable to science.
Not that I think people should get bit by every venomous snake species but if you do get bit, you should photograph, write notes about it, etc... It is certainly better than doing nothing.
So who is up for the next task, copperhead or coral snake anyone? Just joking.
Robert
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