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I am concerned
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Anonymous post on February 25, 2005
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Currently there is a request for "ground" rattlers and a cobra in the classified ads. THIS IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS HOBBY.
When people are buying elapids and vipers without knowing even the simplest common name or general term. This shows a complete lack of expierence and respect for the animals.
If you don't know enough about rattlesnakes to know that they are all terrestrial with occasional abberant arboreal behavior. In other words there is no such term as "ground" rattlers, all rattlesnakes are ground dwelling.
Please if you see ads like this in the classifieds do not sell to people who ask for animals in a way that clearly shows that they would be a threat to our hobby.
Thanks,
N/A
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RE: I am concerned
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by Scootertrash on February 25, 2005
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Actually EMTNurse appears to be quite knowledgable. he has posted and replied to posts on this forum many times and his info has always been well thought out and organized. You must be new here, ANONYMOUS... Fill out your profile and we will take you more seriously.
Clayton
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RE: I am concerned
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by Phobos on February 25, 2005
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Ditto!! Bryan posts here on a regular basis and always seems to have it together. Anyone who is a Nurse/EMT IV tech "Has it VERY together" in my book.
I think this goes back to a point I and many others have made in the past:Use Scientific Names! Then no one can be confused what snake you are talking about. There are tons of "Local Names" for snakes...for instance: Swamp Rattler....What the heck is one of those?? I've heard of several venomous & Non venomous refered to by that name.
Cheers,
Diamond Butt Al
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RE: I am concerned
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by timberrattlesnake89 on February 25, 2005
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Hey Al,
The Swamp Rattler is a canebreak rattlesnakes. They are known to live near swamps and that is why they have got their name. Also I think the term ground rattlers is also for canebreaks.
Phillip
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RE: I am concerned
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by LarryDFishel on February 25, 2005
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Hmmm, let's see... He asked specifically for a Monocled Cobra and a Ground Rattler. Ground Rattler IS a common name for the pigmy rattler.
The fact that YOU don't know what he's talking about doesn't neccessarily mean he doesn't.
While I can see where it could be confusing, and perhaps emphesizes Phobo's point about using latin names (although he was looking for a snake locally, and brobably most of the locals don't know the latin), maybe in the future you could go to the trouble of doing a web search on the offending term and make sure YOU know what you're talking about before you lay into somone else...
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RE: I am concerned
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by AquaHerp on February 25, 2005
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Actually a "swamp rattler" is a massasauga. In the Northern states they are still frequently called swamp rattlers. The Easterns (Sistrurus catenatus catenatus) are also frequently called muck rattlers by some of the backwoods locals too. The name Massasauga in Chippewa tongue means "great river mouth". These snakes were long thought to be tied almost exclusively to the damp meadows and swampy areas.
Ground rattler is still a term used often by many for the pygmy rattlesnakes. So generally the "Sistrurus" genus is what we are looking at here. Calling them ground rattlers is truly no more off the cuff than calling them Pygmy rattlesnakes instead of "Sistrurus miliarius barbouri" or what ever precise species you are referring too. And the people get all bent out of shape that we are getting too hoity-toity by using scientific names. Now we see why we do.
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RE: I am concerned
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by Phobos on February 25, 2005
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See what I mean...Anonymous...All these people are well respected posters on this site and we have 3 different snakes. Since I'm from NY the Swamp Rattler I know about is the Massasauga (Sistrurus catenatus catenatus).
Clayton was correct in first saying: "Fill out your profile and we will take you more seriously."
Diamond Butt Al
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by TCH_Zoological on February 25, 2005
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I would have to agree with AquaHerp regarding the term "swamp rattler" aka Eastern Massasauga. This is the only snake I've ever heard that is reffered to by this term.
I've never heard C. horridus (Timber/Canebrake)called a "ground/swamp rattler" before today.
I would agree with the other posts that the use of common names or local terms for snakes is not always the best way to communicate effectively, hence the internationally known version scientific/latin terms are far more universal.
"called muck rattlers by some of the backwoods locals too,"(AquaHerp). Indeed local or "yocal" terms for snakes tend to remind me of backwoods folk...leading me to believe they might have a heightened case of incompetency. HOWEVER, I am not saying that about EMTNurse at all.
In general, scientists and (truly) educated people know that by using a universal standard everything flows in a more efficent manner. Therefore, I would reccommend that people use scientific names in posts.
A perfect example is in the posts above "ground rattlers" are:
canebrakes, timbers, Carolina pigmys, dusky pigmys, western pigmys, eastern massasaugas, western massasaugas, desert massasaugas......etc.
So which is it? Exactly?
If a person had requested (Sistrurus)the author would be clearly and effectively speaking about one particular genus.
It takes very little time to deduct what the scientific name of a particular animal is, but, on the other hand, to research the common names for a specific animal may lead to several different conclusions.
Please, be clear that I am not wishing to bash anyone and especially not EMTNurse who has proven he is quite intelligent in many different posts and of course in his career type. I am also not saying that the use of common names is a sign of ignorance. This post is directed to all, not just one person.
My full intentions were to express my thoughts regarding the effectiveness in communication through scientific vs. common or worse local names.
It is of my PERSONAL opinion that if someone does not know the scientific name for an animal they are trying to purchase from me, I will not sell to them. Because they have not proven, to me, that they know what they are purchasing. This of course is no the only criteria I have for selling any of my animals.
Thanks for reading. I apologize if anyone is offended.
T.C.
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