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RE: And now the fallout
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by venom on November 17, 2006
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What the press fails to catch onto and the HSUS gleefully keeps quiet is that bans and stricter regulations have no effect in situations like that one. HE WAS KEEPING ILLEGALLY TO BEGIN WITH! So if a ban is in place rather than a permit system, he would be keeping “more” illegally? Breaking a different law? What good does it do to make a stricter permit system or do away with it entirely and make it a ban for people like that to not follow?
The knee jerk overhaul of the permit system in Fl is a good example. There was a rash of exotic bites that made press, so people freaked out and decided the permit system was inadequate or whatever. Problem was many of those bites were people keeping without permits to begin with. Unlicensed keepers are getting bit so make the licensing system tougher? Just because those are the ones they can get to. I don’t know the answer but I know things are going to get rough.
Just imagine if they got ahold of his Forest Cobra "care sheet" that he tried to post.....
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RE: And now the fallout
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by Buzztail1 on November 17, 2006
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Exactly!
Larry has hit the nail on the head with this one.
Stricter laws, permits, etc do absolutely nothing in this case (or most cases that actually make the news) because the individual was already breaking the law.
We do not need new laws, stricter laws, etc. We need to enforce the laws that we already have.
I do not agree with a federal permit system. I think that the sheer scale of the situation will make it impossible to create, manage and enforce (and no politician in his/her right mind would even consider such an undertaking).
What might be helpful would be a nationally available course (like hunter safety couses endorsed by the NRA) in safe handling techniques.
Before that would work, you would need a group that the government would endorse as safe to teach it. To do that, they would have to recognize individuals as experts in their field - something they haven't been forced to do yet. Now THAT will be an interesting egg to crack.
Karl
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RE: And now the fallout
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by Cro on November 17, 2006
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What Karl has stated about a Nationally available course in safe handling techniques could very well work. If anyone could do it, the folks at this site could.
The hunter safety courses in many states are taught by people who voulenteer to do so, with the full blessings of the allready overworked Game and Fish folks. We should take a good look at the similarity of hunter safety courses from state to state, and see if we can come up with something similar that the State Natural Resource Departments of many states would support.
I am reminded of the baseball saying from Field of Dreams ``if you build it, they will come.``
Perhaps if WE build it here, both folks seeking certification and Natural Resource folks will take part. One thing that would be important though would be the education and certification of young folks. The hunter safety courses mostly teach young hunters BEFORE they learn bad habits. The same would be true for folks seeking certification in working with reptiles. If they are allready 47 years old, and set in their ways, they will not be able to learn, no matter how much someone tries to teach them.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: And now the fallout
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by SimplySnakes on November 17, 2006
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If anyone reads Mike's profile they will naturally assume he is dilusional. Have any of you looked at it recently? It is absurd and a mockery of the site. It should be taken down off the website immediatly. Mike you are not competent enough nor mature enough to keep any animals. And yes, I just said that Mike.
Paul
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RE: And now the fallout
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by MoccasinMan on November 17, 2006
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What y'all are talking about is exactly what NCARK has been doing on a statewide basis for the last two years... caging and husbandry standards, required tools and experience, safty and health protocols, bite protocols, Dr.'s., private AV stocks. We have worked with PARC to develope a license and permit framework. We are recognized by the State of NC. We are working closely with state agencies and municiple animal control. We are even considering workshops. We are very close to being given responsibility by the state in cooperation with PARC for administering the very licensing system we developed. We are trying to clone the effort in SC. Don't spinn your wheels in outrage over fools. Pitch in and help us accomplish somthing positive. Others are watching... we are developing a powerful model.
Andrew Wyatt
www.NCARK.org
252-207-1041
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RE: And now the fallout
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by rickyduckworth on November 17, 2006
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anyone else feel like it's a hopeless cause?
stupid people get free passes and some eventually get bitten by their pet cobra, make news and make everyone look idiotic.
people still think that snake lovers let their snakes just crawl around the house. the general public is as dumb as ever about snakes and doesn't mind one bit.
it's just really frustrating how things play out. eventually, you'll have to keep illegally or not keep at all. how many of you have a breaking point where you will choose to do this? when does this "great country (for rich people)" become something worse? more and more rights are taken away based on what the majority/money says is right or wrong. it usually makes no sense and is done for the wrong reasons.
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RE: And now the fallout
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by rickyduckworth on November 17, 2006
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and something else, even if someone is 100% legal and still takes a hit, you still have people calling for a ban. most people don't even know that some snakes are more dangerous than others. to them, a copperhead bite is as bad as anything on earth. i think that until the younger generation grows up with respect for every living thing, these bans will happen. until reality matters, then nothing we do or say or don't do or don't say will NEVER matter. not even our money will matter i'm afraid. people simply DO NOT CARE ABOUT US and especially the animals. they don't even think about it until it makes news. good news doesn't make news. the bad news does. it's a situation where you can only lose ground and we're already too far behind as it is. all i personally know to do is to try and make the younger generation understand that they aren't evil or uncontrollable but must be respected.
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“Make the Law Do its Job”
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by ALA_snake33 on November 17, 2006
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Considering how many Judges in this country do not apply the Full Extent of the Laws that are on hand, when they make their Judgments. It dose not surprise me, that people keep doing these things.
Now, if these little Panty Waist Judges that don’t have the Back Bone to pass the Stiffest Sentence they are allowed would do their Job. We could very well see these kinds of thing fall to the way side.
In my opinion, the best way to stop this Crap, is to pressure Judges into using their Bench for something other than a Mercy Call.
Another thing that could help, is to make all Exotic Animal Violations a Class B Felony, instead of a Class A Misdemeanor. With such a Violation, it would be mandatory that the person in question spend at least some time in Jail (Preferable a Few Years). As we all know, most people would rather not have time in Jail for what they would consider a Small Thing.
So you see, there are ways of discouraging. If these Idiotic Judges and Law Makers would get off their A####. Why don’t we start a petition to let Law Makers know they could make things better, just by making the Payment a lot harsher, and by Pressuring these little “Make Your Own Law Judges” do their Job.
Be Safe Ya’ll, Happy Herping : Wally
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RE: “Make the Law Do its Job”
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by rickyduckworth on November 18, 2006
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wally, the thing is that they don't really care. they do what they do to appease special interest groups and whiney soccer moms who know nothing of the world outside the minivan. we can't even consistently prosecute violent criminals or those who have really done some bad things. i'd personally rather see them crack down on people who can't control themselves in public when adversity rears it's head and pisses them off, or that drunk driver who thinks beer and steering go together, or the little prick who wants to be a badass and wave his gun around when he doesn't get his way. only a small percentage of illegal keepers ever have a problem. most of the time, the ones who do probably have a permit system they could have went through but just didn't, like in indiana. a lot are still dumb to the fact that there are laws in place to start with. judges do what they're told to do. no elected official is there except to push their own agenda and look nice doing it.
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RE: “Make the Law Do its Job”
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by MoccasinMan on November 18, 2006
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Ricky is right... the legislators don't care. You can argue the merits of reptiles till you're blue in the face... and their eyes will gloss over... and they will think you are a kook. What matters is the majority opinion and money. If you can demonstrate the negative economic impact on the State of allowing the AR Movement to dictate policy they will understand.
In NC there are large economic interests that would suffer from the establishment of the AR agenda. Link HSUS, PETA and API to their positions on hog & poultry farming, biomedical research and hunting. These industries are directly threatend by the AR Movement. They will use their influence to stop them... and the legislators have stong allegences to them. They will drop the AR agenda as soon as they reconize what it represents. Unless you educate them, they think HSUS is the dog shelter down the street... they don't have any idea who API is. PeTA is the only ones they recognize. Don't talk snakes... talk AR and what that means to the economic prosperity and cultural heritage of your state.
Andrew
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