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RE: $2K for a "pastel" southern copperhe
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by Buzztail1 on November 15, 2007
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SERPENTOR:
Please fill out your profile.
It is a little difficult to swallow all of your self-aggrandizment and condescension with only a first name to pin it on.
Does this request make me a "whiney little hater"?
I guess we'll see.
Jamie:
I saw all of the Copperheads at the Columbia Show. They were nice. I would not pay the prices discussed for them and so I don't have any that nice. That is what it all comes down to. The snakes are only worth what someone else is willing to pay for them. I am not a morph person. Nor am I a hybrid person. I had no use for the Cottonheads that were displayed there either.
That doesn't mean that these snakes don't have value or that someone out there won't pay the prices asked. It just means that the people here who think that they are not worth all that much won't be the ones to buy them. That just doesn't seem that big a deal to me.
I am surprised that no-one has mentioned the green kingsnake that was sold at Daytona one year for an exhorbitant amount. The snake was later found to have been soaked in food coloring and the color came off with its next shed. While entirely different than trying to market a new morph, it does exemplify why so many herpers are skeptical of new things.
R/
Karl
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RE: $2K for a "pastel" southern copperhe
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by agkistrodude on November 15, 2007
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I too enjoy locality specific animals. I know exactly where all of mine came from with one exception, my JCP. I also enjoy seeing W/C variations of animals. But to me, captive bred mutations are like Cubic Zirconias. Not worth much. Just my opinion, MartyM
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RE: $2K for a "pastel" southern copperhe
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by tj on November 15, 2007
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Since those pics on ks are pretty much identical to another persons who also had those same snakes, and the fact that SERPENTOR is adamantly defending Jamie,
I'm gonna have to say it's Mike Jollif.
I do recall having the same discussion with him on ks about the "hypos" he had for sale awhile back.
Haha, Karl. I remember that green kingsnake...it's amazing what you can do with easter egg dye.
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RE: $2K for a "pastel" southern copperhe
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by tj on November 15, 2007
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"I also enjoy seeing W/C variations of animals. But to me, captive bred mutations are like Cubic Zirconias. Not worth much."
What would you call a mutation? A light phase copperhead? An orapel or odd phase eyelash that comes from parents that look nothing like them?
I wouldn't call any of them mutations, I'd call them variations....which both have.
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RE: $2K for a "pastel" southern copperhe
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by ChuckHurd on November 15, 2007
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i consider jamie and mike to be friends and i really hope they are able to get $1000/each on these coppers, but my honest opinion is, the market will not bare it. i can't understand why some of you seem to be so angry about what they are pricing their snakes at???? does it affect you or the venomous community at large? heck, seems to me, if you do not want to pay $2000/pair for the pastel coppers, you just don't buy them and everyone should be happy. couple things i wanted to add to this, karl was correct, they are worth what someone will pay. i recently had discussions with two high profile breeders, one producing albino edb's and the other leucistic cottonmouths. i was hoping to work out a deal, but couldn't get either to budge on price. it was my opinion, and i have a BS in economics, the market would not bare the asking price. at the time i talked to both of them, both seemed rather put out at me when i explained my thoughts. both refused to budge on price and we couldn't work anything out. both later dropped the prices, so i am assuming that something brought them around to my way of thinking. anyway, i said that to say this, jamie and mike have something special. i have caught plenty of coppers and every year since about 2000 till he died, i looked thru the hundreds that keith taylor caught. so, its safe to say i have seen thousands of coppers and i have not seen any like what they have right now. this isn't something that other people have. regardless of what you say, you do not have snakes that look like this. if someone is working with coppers, this is something to be desired and should pull a premium price. unlike the albino edb and the leucistic cottonmouths, these have not been around for years and only one breeder has them. that puts upward pressure on the price. and a word on the naming. doesn't the term hypo (short for hypo-melanistic) simply mean a reduction in black pigment? if so, would not any animal that is lighter colored then normal be a hypo by definition? and does not pastel mean soft color? if so, would not any animal that is a light red or pink be a pastel by definition?
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RE: $2K for a "pastel" southern copperhe
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by agkistrodude on November 15, 2007
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If its found under a piece of tin, I find it interesting, and maybe worth something. If its a product of cross breeding, inbreeding, crossbreeding again and again in somebody's basement, I don't find it interesting.Then its a Cubic Zirconia, not worth much. To some it may be and thats fine, just not to me. MartyM
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RE: $2K for a "pastel" southern copperhe
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by ChuckHurd on November 15, 2007
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ok marty, so tell me, when you find this exceptional animal under a peice of tin, what do you plan to do with it? you gona stick it in a cage and keep it there till it dies of old age, or will you attempt to recreate the color and pattern in future generations? snakes that i find myself always mean more to me then snakes i buy or trade for, but to say they have little value because they are captive born is illogical.
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RE: $2K for a "pastel" southern copperhe
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by agkistrodude on November 15, 2007
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Just my own opinion. When it comes to me spending 2K on a snake, its the only one that matters... in my opinion. MartyM
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RE: $2K for a "pastel" southern copperhe
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by Atrox788 on November 16, 2007
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Asking a slightly higher price for a superb specimen is one thing. Taking a 20-50 dollar snake, slapping a label on it and asking 2k for the pair is something completely different.
Jsargent wrote:
"i offered them as an oppertunity to other copperhead breeders and lovers...since this was the first year the parents were large enough to breed it is a ground level project...it will take a few years to get the female pinks large enough to breed and i was offering someone else this chance"
Give me a break! Breed out whatever genes you think it has, make some sort of crazy morph and then raise the price tag. Saying that your trying to give someone the chance to make a weird morph is hogwash. Your trying to weasel as much money as you can! Dont act like your doing it for the greater good of copperhead keepers everywhere!
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RE: $2K for a "pastel" southern copperhe
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by AquaHerp on November 16, 2007
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Personally, if I found a two-headed albino mang viper while traveling through the mountains of China, I would place it in an enclosure and feed it until it succumbed of natural causes. To me they are still snakes and not commodities. I guess I have never gotten past them being animals and thought about them only in dollars and cents....to be shuffled around in deli cups and traded off as soon as I got bored or the new craze in herp-dom came along splashed across the front cover of the trade magazine. I truly hope I never do. That's they day I will toss my stump-ripper in the closet and take up knitting or become a game show host or something else for a living. That's all I have to say on the subject.
DH
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