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RE: how many years as a hot keeper and how many bi
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by AquaHerp on February 14, 2008
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30 years. 3 bites. One in the field by a horridus that hit me before I even saw it; my first year of research, the remaining two while working on small vipers with medical conditions during vet procedures.
Fire away! I'll put my skills up against anyone's on my worst day. While there is no glory in being hit, those who have not are in no position to preach at others, especially to those who sling hundreds of vipers a week. I don't take chances and would send a keeper of mine packing if I saw them doing so. Conversely, I have driven since I was 16 without an accident and don't look down my nose at those who have had the misfortune of being T-boned through no fault of their own. Idiots with a death wish perhaps....but I don't see tossing a wet blanket over them all.
DH
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RE: how many years as a hot keeper and how many bi
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by AquaHerp on February 14, 2008
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You missed the point.
It's the "Never, never never" mentality that I have issue with. To me it shows a lack of true insight.
My day today comprosed of crating an extremely ticked off ocelot for transport. A few hours later I was standing on top of a crate while a quite upset black rhino repeatedly did its best to knock myself and another visiting curator from the top by ramming it with everything he had. In an hour I was removing an eyecap from a forest cobra who was none too grateful about the whole ordeal.
My afternoons are pretty well spent dealing with these things on a daily basis and if I have the occasional one that slips through the cracks and ruins my day..is it my fault? Perhaps. Is it something that should never ever happen? My job description might beg otherwise. I'm more than comfortable with my track record.
As usual, I won't argue the point to death as these threads noramally do as they carry on. Those who get it, get it. Those who don't, won't.
Thanks.
DH
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RE: how many years as a hot keeper and how many bi
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by richardduckworth on February 14, 2008
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it just seems like a couple of members in this thread are overly defensive about their bites even though in 5 pages, no one is really putting them down save for the one or two posts saying that accidents can be prevented, which i'm sure you agree can. it's rare that a bite was totally impossible to avoid in hindsight. obviousy with someone like you or someone who is a venom extractor, the odds eventually catch up due to the sheer number of chances for mistake.
and i totally envy your day. i nailed up a few doors and took off early to do a valve adjustment on an old accord. not nearly as exciting although the wind blew the hood down on my head ;)
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RE: how many years as a hot keeper and how many bi
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by stopgetinpopped on February 14, 2008
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I rarely post anymore but read through the threads and I find it very interesting the number of times someone has said "accidents happen" There truly is no such thing as an "accident" especially in this hobby...
Mistakes do.
I quite literally Average 1200 interactions with Venomous snakes every week of every year for the last 12. Ranging from Pygmies to Inland Taipans.
I received my first bite last year, a S.c. tergeminus. An accident? No. A mistake? Yes.
My first mistake? No. Just my first mistake that resulted in a bite.
Mistakes happen all the time..Accidents NEVER happen..it is ALWAYS the Mistake of someone!
I've had plenty of mistakes. An angusticeps bounced off the crotch of my jeans, an atrox that put two fangs through a latex glove, but not my finger...(explain that?) I fell down on a medium sized Puff adder, actually landed on him with the full weight of my body, face to literally face with her(explain that). I had a Papuan Taipan touch my thumb, I dropped a Coral snake in my rubber boots, I picked up a coral snake by the head rather than the tail...
Stupid stuff...but it does happen. Humans make mistakes all the time!
Shit happens...very true. There is a difference between working a dozen venomous snakes and 1000 every week.
I am always thinking about my grocery shopping list, my birthday plans, my fight with my wife, the movie I watched last night etc. etc...
The point is...like I said. Accidents don't happen, mistakes do.
Does any of those stories above make me a negligent keeper? No. They make me human.
Totally different from the numnuts that lack the experience and knowledge to routinely do what is nescessary to keep venomous reptiles safely.
As for ego etc as stated above.. What Aquaherp said was fact, not ego. Simply put, in order to work with large amounts of venomous snakes on a regular basis, that person must be confident to the point of egotism in his/her skills....NEVER crossing the line but riding that line with perfect clarity.
I can easily say that there are less than 2 handfuls of people worldwide that can even come close to the experience that I have with every major venomous snake you can think of. Is that my ego talking? No. It's simply a fact of life.
I made it over a decade without a bite...I thought that was a pretty good track record until I got to thinking that I have another 3.5 decades to go in my career. Does that mean that I have another 3.5 bites to go? Damn I hope not...but ya know...I might just make another mistake or two in the next 35 years.
Best Regards,
Terry Phillip
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RE: how many years as a hot keeper and how many bi
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by Rob_Carmichael on February 15, 2008
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Terry, excellent distinction between accidents and mistakes - you really hit it on the head. Doug also made some excellent points for which I couldn't agree more. For those of us who are blessed enough to do this as a profession, close interactions with venomous is a part of our job, it's an inherent risk that we all take and accept. Although I've been fortunate enough to not take a hit, yet, in my career (captive herps), it can happen in a blink of an eye just like it did to Terry (and probably from the least likely snake he'd ever consider getting nailed by). Every day has unique challenges as I've stated before. Terry's record is really quite amazing considering the amount of close interactions on a daily basis. Same with Doug. Both possess a high degree of confidence that is absolutely critical and I, too, always feel confident when working with my collection - not out of sheer cockiness but rather confidence in my abilities and techniques. I've got 20 years down but still could be doing this for another 20-30 years with many unknowns ahead. By minimizing risks, I can only hope for continued safety. If an accident happens, does that negate my many years of safe handling? I hope not. These days, I'll take my chances with venomous over driving in Chicago traffic any day.
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
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RE: how many years as a hot keeper and how many bi
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by Buzztail1 on February 15, 2008
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This post has viewpoints from everywhere on the spectrum - from people who have only kept a year or two to professionals who earn their living caring for these dangerous animals.
I have been fortunate to work both ends of that spectrum but I didn't get to work with them "professionally" until recently. I can say with certainty that there are people who take every precaution and do things just as safely at home as professionals do. There are also people in the professional ring of venomous reptiles that are the dare devils that give us all a black eye.
I am proud to be associated with most of the people who take the time to post here. When I first got into keeping venomous, I would have done drastic things just to get to talk to people like Doug, Terry, Andrew, Rob, and so many others who post here fairly regularly. They put out great information and viewpoints which have helped them over decades of venomous involvement. We don't always have to agree on everything, but it can certainly be useful to get to know how other people view things and what has worked for them.
Thanks to all of the "old timers", "newbies", and "afficianados" who have chimed in on this.
R/
Karl
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RE: how many years as a hot keeper and how many bi
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by AquaHerp on February 15, 2008
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My apologies if my posts were not too eloquent. It has been a long few months with animals shipments and little sleep. The bottom line is...be safe everyone!
DH
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RE: how many years as a hot keeper and how many bi
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by Crotalusssp on February 15, 2008
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6 years now and 0 bites, at least from venomous LOL. Non-venomous too many to count.
Charles
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RE: how many years as a hot keeper and how many bi
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by jared on February 15, 2008
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Thank u Doug for clearing up my point. Just be careful everyone, Ive been working with herps all my life, and you can prepare and prepare, just be careful.
Jared
Thats why accidents are called accidents
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