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RE: Let's ease up a bit
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by Cro on October 1, 2008
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Arin, I found that thread. You are talking about the one where the fellow asks:
"WHAT ARE THE SIGNIFICANT
DIFFERENCES BETWEEN AN
EAST AFRICAN AND A WEST
AFRICAN GABOON VIPER?"
I will have to agree with you that that thread got a bit out of control. There are hundreds of other threads that did not get out of control though.
That basic question could have been answered without the person filling in his profile. But, part of the confusion was the fact that the site did not have a clearly stated policy about profiles. We have fixed that now. It came from confusion about requiring Profiles for Classified Adds, but not requiring Profiles for Experts posts.
The problem is that in posts like that, the person will next ask what would be the best one of those snakes for them to keep, and with out a profile filled in, it would be a difficult question to answer, as we have no idea how old the person is or what his keeping experience is.
What you guys dont know, is what happened after that post behind the scenes.
The site managers all keep in touch by EMail. There was a big discussion with the site managers about the profile thing. Because the code for this site is so old, it is hard to make changes to the site. But, we decided that Profiles filled in should be a good thing to require in the future. Once we are able to fix the code, that will be the new policy here. Overall, it should help, as you will be able to know something about who is posting, unless the person is telling lies.
If you look at what I posted today about Profiles, it states what the current policy is, and how we intend to change it in the near future. So, we are making progress. That is largely a result of that post you mentioned, and the reaction we got from one jerk who wanted to call folks names and complain. Have you noticed that he has not returned ?
Overall, this is a great forum. The Venom Center Forum that Craig mentioned is also a good one, although I do not recall him posting there. I am a Senior member there, and we have a lot of overlap between this forum and that one. There are hundreds of other forums out there also. And folks are always free to start their own forums.
The folks here who spend countless hours year after year answering questions, get very little credit for the work they do. It is unfortunate that folks do not appreciate that. But, if folks here do not like this forum, they are free to find others that they like better.
Best Regards John Z
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RE: Let's ease up a bit
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by Rob_Carmichael on October 1, 2008
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I agree that there really are some dumb questions - not to be insensitive or anything like that but c'mon folks (ooops, bad grammar, sorry), it's pretty easy to tell when someone is asking a genuine question and showing some level of appreciation and prior research versus someone who is treating this site like a drive up window at a Wendy's - place your order (question) and get it soon or you'll throw a big tantrum. Too many folks don't want to put the time in to do their research. If they demonstrated that they did some checking around and then ask a "stupid question" it wouldn't be met with short and direct answers. My biggest pet peeve is folks who can't even give a real name but that's just me. Sign of the times I suppose.
Times change, people change, folks on this forum come and go...in the end, this is an amazing resource. When I was a kid growing up I could only dream of talking to folks who work at zoos, serve as curators at large facilities or serious/accomplished private breeders and we have it all in one place....my consultant was Kaufeld's books:-) Man, folks just don't know how good they have it.
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
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RE: Let's ease up a bit
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by constrictorfreak on October 1, 2008
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I really didn't see how some could turn another away because their profile wasn't filled out . it's just a question why not answer it . You don't have to know a persons life story just to answer a simple husbandry question . Or does everyone carry around a stack of profile forms ? You know like for the times where maybe someones lost asking for directions , or maybe a elderly lady wants to ask you to carry her groceries because she's getting weak at the knees , but wait she has to fill out her profile info first . Maybe some of these questions have to be answered then . A quick response is always the difference between life and death , one of these questions could very well be .
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RE: Let's ease up a bit
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by toddg on October 1, 2008
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Here's a dumb question; Must EVERY "dumb" question on this forum be responded too?
Mom always said,"If you can't say something nice..."
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RE: Let's ease up a bit
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by puffadder7 on October 1, 2008
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john z i forgot about that one 'whats the difference from a west african gaboon and east african gaboon' but that one i was talking about was a young kid, arin
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RE: Let's ease up a bit
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by puffadder7 on October 1, 2008
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i found it, the topic is 'venomous snakes' the kids name is gaboonviper208, it is on page seven, arin
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RE: Let's ease up a bit
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by Cro on October 1, 2008
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Arin, you are right about that thread. You saw the age of the kid, and tried to tell folks not to jump all over him. That was the right thing for you to do.
Folks jumped all over him anyway, and he has not been back since then.
I noticed the age thing you pointed out and responded to him this way:
"Nicolas, as you can see from the response, people here believe very strongly that before someone keeps venomous snakes, that they should learn safety from a mentor and start with something like a copperhead and work up to more dangerous snakes like gaboon vipers over many years of practice and training.
However, you never said that you wanted to to keep a gaboon viper or rhino viper, you just asked which was easiest to keep. So, it actually is a good question to ask if you are just curious and trying to learn more about snakes.
I think that is why you asked the question, because you want ot learn more about venomous snakes. And I think that you are probably 10 years old, based on your profile. We like getting questions here from young Herpetologists who are trying to learn.
Do not let all of the negative responses scare you from asking more questions about snakes here. Folks made the assumption that you were wanting to keep gaboon vipers or rhino vipers as a first venomous snake. I think that they jumped the gun a bit, without knowing anything about you, or about your age.
In the future, when you ask questions, you might want to remind people that you are just trying to learn, and that you are not wanting to go out and buy a gaboon viper to keep. That way, people will be more able to help with your questions. Don't let them scare you off, as this is a very good forum, with a lot of very good people who can answer your questions about snakes."
My comments to him did not help also. The damage had allready been done, and he did not return to the site.
I am not sure what started the feeding frenzy on that thread, but it scared a little kid from the site. People need to be carefull about not doing that. That is another reason that having a filled in Profile is important. Perhaps if folks knew he was 10 years old, they would have treated him different ?
We can probably go back through many old posts and cherry pick all kinds of things like that. But, when we look at all of the answers that folks get here, most of the time folks here are treated well, and recieve good information. Maybee once in 100 posts something like that happens. We can probably do better and improve that. What triggers that type of thing is hard to say. All someone would have to do, would be to do what you did, and look at the date in the profile, and know that we were talking with a 10 year old.
So Arin, what do you think would improve that ? It is good that you care, but folks sure did not listen to you, even after you said the young fellow was 10. Folks did not listen to me after I agreed with you. It was a feeding frenzy, blood in the water thing, and afterwords, I think some of the folks felt bad about it. But, it still is not an everyday thing here, and is not all that common.
Perhaps you could have asked others her something like this "hey guys, why are you all ragging on a little kid who asked a simple question." Whould that have helped in that case? Who knows. When a frenzy starts like that, sometimes it is not possible to stop it.
Folks see a post, and want to answer it. Before they do that, they should always look at the profile of the person asking the question, and then consier just what the person is really trying to ask. Unfortunatly, many folks never read the profiles, they just make assumptions, and whip out a quick reply.
Best Regards John Z
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RE: Let's ease up a bit
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by theemojohnm on October 1, 2008
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Very good points John!
That too was the thread I also mentioned. I may have contibuted to that "scare" a bit I fear, but was not my intention. Its very hard to interprate how somthing is intended to sound from text on a computer screen sometimes.
I know that it has to be frustrating for all of the experts here to repeat themselves daily it seems. I have been at this site under a year, and EVEN I get tired of seeing some of the same questions come up. The laziness of some of the folks who come here plays a big part of it. The FIRST Q on the FAQ page is the one about the venom collecting and selling. Even in the months that I have been here, I must have seen that question come up about 6 times now in the Experts Forum.
I love this place...it is my favorite online resource by far. The "regulars" here are all great people, and some discussions come up here that are very interesting. I ussually lend any advice I can give in posts where I see fit, and, if it is a repeat, news related, or question I am not fit to answer.... I may give a few facts and leave it to someone else who I know can provide a far better answer.
The only time I can honestly say I was surprised by the response someone was given, was in that thread "venomous snakes" like Arin mentioned.
And...you cant blame any of the experts here for getting fed up and having the experinces on this site "In the days of Muffy". The first thing I ever looked at on this site were the old forum posts, and stumbled across alot of things that really shocked and sickened me. All at the hand of "you know who", but I wolnt get into that either, because, as mentioned before, enough is enough..
Overall, I think almost everyone who has come to this site since I arrived here some months back has certainly obtained the answer they wanted. Some folks just add in a few little rude remarks sometimes.
Most of it is how the person interprates what advice is given to them. In the end, if they get their answer, either way, everyone here is doing their jobs.
Take Care.
~John.
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RE: Let's ease up a bit
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by puffadder7 on October 1, 2008
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well john, you asked what could help stop that, i think people filling out there profile is a start so they know a bit about the person, and even if the person is 'not' a kid, with no venomous experience, so insted about this being just me in this, we need to make a team, because you always know what you are talking about, arin
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