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RE: Rattlesnake Non-rattling Study
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by Cro on February 7, 2010
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Fred, I am amazed that you are typing that well with a stylus thing. We need to find you a real computer with a real key board !
Sent the Email again, hopefully, this time it will arrive.
No doubt there is a lot of research that can be done concerning communication in snakes. I wish I had access to the types of lab equipment that could be used to record those sounds, and to monitor the brain waves of snakes to determine if they are receiving airborne or groundborne sound waves.
As far as the grazing animal theory, that has been repeated for a long period of time. My Klauber's Rattlesnakes set is in storage, but, that would be the first place I would look for references to that theory. It is likely that a lot of Herpetologists and Naturalists have gotten that one wrong over the years, and spread the tail vibrating mimic story. It is such a easy jump for someone answering the question as why a snake is vibrating its tail, to say that it is trying to mimic a rattlesnake, LOL.
Will be fun to see where some of these topics go.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Rattlesnake Non-rattling Study
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by FSB on February 7, 2010
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Yeah John, I find it kind of amazing myself [amazing what you can get used to]. Randal, I've noticed "tail-wagging" in my Wagler's [ha -I didn't even see that one coming, I swear] vipers too. Good term though, since it isn't rapid enough to be called "vibration" - more of a back-and-forth swishing, and definitely seems defensive.
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RE: Rattlesnake Non-rattling Study
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by Irishviper on February 7, 2010
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I should have all deatails ironed out by this summer on the thesis work. More than likely some of the papers will be submited to the Journal of Herpetology, but I see no reason not to submit my findings here. It's by far more valuable to me that any one who want to can read it. I think most will be excited from my results. There is a very good statistical annalysis that goes with it that makes it pretty water tight when showing major differnces between kluaberi and lepidus. Doesn't mean taxonomist will run out and change names, but it ought to give others decent reasons to look even further.
Alan
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RE: Rattlesnake Non-rattling Study
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by Rob_Carmichael on February 7, 2010
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Geez I wish we were all hanging around a fire in the desert and talking about all of this stuff over a few cold ones!! Too much to discuss on a forum like this but great reading nonetheless. Although I have only worked with approximately 10 bushmasters (stenophrys and muta) in my career, I have seen "tail wagging"/"vibrating" in two of my stenophrys. I wish I had better locality info on them as I wonder if its indicative of certain populations. One of the stenophrys only exhibited this behavior right before feeding - perhaps it is some sort of excitable/anticipatory behavior. Anyway, lots of great info!
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RE: Rattlesnake Non-rattling Study
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by FSB on February 7, 2010
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Rob, I was thinking pretty much exactly the same thing, only it was in a swamp with some good single malt Scotch and John Z's gumbo...
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RE: Rattlesnake Non-rattling Study
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by Irishviper on February 7, 2010
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Just an off topic of different species of snake with the cuadal luring. I have kept several species over the years. The genus that really struck me with the tail shaking was vipera. Xanthina, latasti, aspis atra, etc. All of them did it. I wish I had paid more attention to it, it might have maid a good discussion paper.
Alan
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RE: Rattlesnake Non-rattling Study
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by Cro on February 8, 2010
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Hey, grilled steak & beer in the desert, or, gumbo & scotch in a swamp, both work for me.
When, where, and who is gonna pay for it ?
Anyone have some python study grant money they can spare, LOL.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Rattlesnake Non-rattling Study
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by FSB on February 8, 2010
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John, my python study is on the back burner - right now I'm still working on the grant to get 1400 rattlesnakes to release on my property.
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RE: Rattlesnake Non-rattling Study
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by CAISSACA on February 9, 2010
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The grazing animal idea for the origin of the rattle is almost certainly wrong. The vast majority of rattlesnakes do NOT live in the great plains, and the m,ost likely centre of origin of rattlesnakes is actually the mountains of Mexico.
Most pitvipers vibrate their tails when on the defensive. The rattle arose as a result of one or several fortuitous mutations that caused the terminal tail scale to be retained after each shed. This caused additional noise to be produced from a structure by capitalising on an existing behaviour pattern. There does not need to be a particular cause for it, all that is required is that the evolutionary novelty provides more advantages than disadvantages.
The same applies to the evolution of less rattling behaviour. Where snakes that don't rattle are at an advantage compared to those that do, rattling might well become rarer with time, if the tendency to rattle is at least partially inherited.
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