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RE: Age restriction.
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by Cro on March 28, 2010
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Jon, that is actually a great story about your brother.
Hopefully, it will teach folks to be more careful.
Also good that the same AV would work on both bites.
I bet that was a miserable time for him, dealing with two bites at once. Hope he did not wind up with lasting damage from the bites.
Randal, I really do not care one way or the other what you and your Live Oak folks do with your shows as far as rules. If you want to sell only to 21 year old folks, or above, then go for it. Private building, private rules, really does not matter to me. If an individual thinks they are being discriminated against, then they can take it up with the Live Oak folks.
However, my point is still valid, that MOST of the country considers age 18 to be the age of majority, for MOST things.
And my point that most of the folks who get bitten by venomous snake pets are not underage keepers is also valid. Most of the bites are the 20 something year old keepers.
The state of Florida, which probably has more venomous keepers than any other state, is willing to license venomous keepers at age 18, providing they have the mentored experience and 1000 hours of training.
If Texas wants to be backward, that is OK by me, as I do not live there.
The whole thing is rather silly anyway, because after the python bans pass at the federal level this summer, and the venomous snake bans follow the summer after, there will be almost no venomous reptile keeping left anyway. Some folks in certain states might be grandfathered in. But, for the most part, there will be no more venomous shows, as there will be far too many regulations for folks to attend them to buy venomous snakes. And, most of the big importers will fold up their tents, and move on to something else. What sales there will be over the internet, and will be mostly to zoos, or, permitted individuals.
Then all of you can talk about the good old days where folks could readily buy venomous reptiles at shows.......
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Age restriction.
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by pictigaster1 on March 28, 2010
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Dag nabbit John we's out cheer in Texas ain't so bakerds When I's got my's deevorce I's steeel kep'n her'n as'n my seesteer.We justa don't visit'na Pa da same day.yeeehaaa
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RE: Age restriction.
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by SwampY on March 28, 2010
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What I'm about to post has nothing to do with my opinion on the subject of keeping hots and at what age, its just an observation of law regarding something John posted about discrimination.
Keep in mind that only governments are not allowed to discriminate, a private company may legally discriminate all they want in regards to customers. Newspapers turn down advertisements that customers try to place all the time. Try walking into a newspaper and running an ad that says "this paper sucks!"
You can refuse to sell something to someone all you want, for any reason or without giving a reason at all, with very few exceptions - I think there are exceptions in things like selling or renting housing, etc., but as a general rule, if I don't like you I can refuse to sell you something.
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RE: Age restriction.
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by Cro on March 28, 2010
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LOL, Archie, you are funny.
I should have probably said "certain" show promoters, instead of "Texas," in general, as I am sure not all of Texas folks, or all Texas show promoters are that way. And Archie, I am sure your shows in Lorado will be much better than those in other parts of the state. At least you can think for yourself, and do not have to turn to some city rules to try to justify yourself, LOL.
Of course, if the place you are renting has its own rules, then you probably have to follow them, despite them being silly rules. Or, you could try to change them, but I do not see most folks doing that.
I stated that when I said "Private building, private rules." Did you not see that Chad ? Not sure what is so confusing about that to you folks, but, perhaps I should type slower for you ? That would seem to support what Chad said, but I still reserve the right to think that businesses that discriminate are wrong in doing so, even if they have that right to do so. I am not required to like it. And I an required to not speak out against it. Change is made by speaking out against things that are wrong.
What if the business said no sales to black folks, instead of no sales to folks under 21 ? Would that still fly ? Can a private business do that ? What happens Chad when someone comes into that same news paper and wants to run a pro-obama ad ? Do they turn him down, even if the editors hate obama ? LOL.
Businesses can do what ever they want, up to a point. Try being a restaurant, and tell those Asian folks they are not welcome in there. Your newspaper might turn down a advertisement that was against the newspaper, but would they turn down a advertisement from Asian folks, or black folks, just because they did not like Asian folks, or black folks ? would your news paper turn down a story by someone just because they were under the age of 21 ? I don't think so.
Best Regards
John Z
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Commerse Clause
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by earthguy on March 29, 2010
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From a legal standpoint...well heck. Few of us here are lawyers. But my job keeps me in pretty close contact with the legal system, so I will explain my lay understanding of it. Technically private business can discriminate against a customer (for whatever reason) with the only possible reprocussion of losing revenue. If somebody doesn't like being descriminated against they can get a good lawyer to apply the commerse clause. If that business uses ANY material that crosses state lines (how many vendors cross state lines?) then the federal government can impose penalties for discrimination (based on race, gender, relegious affiliation, and sexual orientation for sure. Ageism could likely get get penalized as well). Don't believe me? Ask Maurice Bessenger of "Maurice's BBQ". Those of you who visit the Columbia show have probably seen the ads.
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RE: Commerse Clause
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by Chance on March 29, 2010
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Whew. So I just Googled Maurice's BBQ and wow, it's amazing that places like that are still in existence. Good ole South Carolina (or GA, TN, MS, AL, LA, even my native AR, etc)...that there are still mentalities like his out there, and that a restaurant owner would have enough gall to promote it, well I just hope his business goes under in a rather unpleasant way.
On to age restrictions, as someone who began keeping venomous at a young age (19) and no longer keeps them at my current age (27) I feel I can weigh in a little. I personally believe that most, if not all, late adolescents and especially younger adolescents don't have the mental capacity to fully appreciate dangerous situations. In my case, I kept animals I had no business keeping rather quickly after getting into keeping venomous. I've never been bitten but it certainly could have happened. Looking back on it now, I realize the risk I was putting myself, my family, and my friends in, which is why I no longer keep those animals. Many studies have shown that the brain doesn't finish maturing, in males anyway, until about age 25. That explains why insurance rates drastically drop when a guy turns 25. Risky behavior stops.
So to answer the question, yes I do support age restrictions on keeping venomous. Is 18 or 21 better, honestly neither one is great.
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RE: Commerse Clause
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by earthguy on March 29, 2010
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Chance,
That precedent was set many moons ago. And Maurice is still doing just fine. I understand the BBQ is tasty, but I've never had a strong desire to go try it.
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