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RE: Commerse Clause
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by Chance on April 1, 2010
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I have to say, I give a flying fig about Randal and his shows :)
(Just wanted to add a bit of levity in an otherwise tense thread.)
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RE: Age restriction.
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by pictigaster1 on April 1, 2010
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Rob you have valid points,I hope you and your child had a blast.Every one I hope this thread will stop as when we start personal attacks we degrade from the topic and the site objectives .This thread is my fault and I would like to apologize for starting it again.Lets go herpen and move on PLEASE.
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RE: Age restriction.
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by Cro on April 1, 2010
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Good idea Archie.
Snakes are crawling, and folks should be out looking for them, and taking photos of them, and enjoying the spring weather.
A thread about Age Restrictions will never work, because there are no clear answers. Everyone has a different opinion, and will never agree.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Age restriction.
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by Rob_Carmichael on April 2, 2010
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What's the deal John? Having a bad week? "Law", "rules" , "ordinance", etc does it matter? And yes, I did read the posts...slowly....over a cup of great coffee....outside on my deck soaking in 1000 acres of beautiful grassland savanna on a beautiful day with my kookaburras laughing in the background. Sounds like expressing opinions in a calm and respectful manner is not condoned here.
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RE: Age restriction.
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by Ptk on April 2, 2010
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Archie,
I know this thread hasnt turned out exactly as you probably intended but I am glad you posted it. While I can appreciate you might feel caught in the middle of two or your mentors on opposite ends of the debate but it is clearly a topic worth discussing. If anything, this site proves that ignoring it is not going to make it go away.
While surfing the survey archives found these that I found interesting when considering an age restriction. I know percentages are just that......., but interesting to me none the less.
At what age did you keep your first venomous snake?
Below 18 years old = 42% (62) Top answer
18 - 20 years old = 27% (40)
21 - 25 years old = 9% (14)
26 - 29 years old = 9% (13)
30 - 35 years old = 8% (12)
36 - 40 years old = 2% (3)
Older than 41 years old = 3% (4)
Have you ever been bitten by a venomous reptile?
N0 = 61% (176) Top answer
Yes = 33% (96)
Do you think that it is inevitable for a long-term keeper of venomous reptiles to be envenomated? Why or why not?
Yes = 30% (62)
No = 64% (134) Top answer
"Its not if you get bit - its WHEN" - do you agree?
YES = 40% Top answer
NO = 36%
Would never keep venomous = 16%
Depends = 7%
How long have you been keeping venomous reptiles?
More than 15 years = 21% (42) Top answer
Less than one year = 6% (12)
Why do you keep venomous snakes?
Just because I enjoy them = 32% (160) Top answer
Primarily for public education, display or exhibit = 3% (14)
Primarily for scientific research = 3% (13)
How many years experience do you have handling venomous snakes?
Less than 1 = 28% (136)
9 to 12yrs = 6% (29)
more than 12 = 27% (128)
Have you ever had a venomous snake escape from its cage, never to be found again?
No! Never! = 61% (301) Top answer
Once or more than once = 8%
If one of your animals got out and caused a person close to you serious harm (e.g. family member being bitten), would you continue to keep venomous reptiles?
Yes, of course = 37% (244) Top answer
No, of course not = 10% (63)
***Before someone does the math and says the numbers dont add up, I didnt copy all options for every survey just the responces that stuck out to me***
Cheers!
PTK
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RE: Commerse Clause
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by pictigaster1 on April 2, 2010
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eVERY ONE HERE IS A MENTOR TO ME jOHN AND RANDAL have just got the most questions I was just hoping for civility to return soon .We need it.
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RE: Commerse Clause
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by Cro on April 2, 2010
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Patrick,
Thanks for posting those statistics again.
It is pretty obvious from reading them, that most venomous keepers started below the age of 18.
And, we also know that most bites occur to folks who are 20 something years old. And, we see that not many folks started keeping venomous snakes in their 20's.
So, that tends to suggest, that folks who started with venomous snakes at a early age were fairly safe with them. And, it suggests, that folks who were in their 20's probably get more sloppy with time, and familiarity.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Commerse Clause
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by venominme on April 3, 2010
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Maybe it’s those teenagers advancing past keeping copperheads and Gaboons and getting into faster more exotic stufff like monocles and mambas when the bites start?
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RE: Commerse Clause
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by Rob_Carmichael on April 3, 2010
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Stats are a bit misleading due to the small sample size of this particular survey. Anyone can respond in order to pad the percentages (and do it multiple times)....not saying it happened, but this type of survey would not be considered a valid one in my opinion. Who's responding?, what geographic area does it cover?, are people responding that also may be breaking the law or keeping them w/out parental knowledge?, how and where are these people getting their first venomous herp?, etc. I personally wouldn't put any stock in these numbers whatsoever. The venomous culture/community is one that doesn't lend itself very well to an on line, anonymous survey like this unless the survey is very well constructed and professionally administered. Yes, we all need to work together but we also have some very differing opinions and philosophies and the age factor is one that I know will not be resolved. So, when this topic pops up again, and it will, I hope that folks will be civil towards each other as we express our own opinions.
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RE: Commerse Clause
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by 23bms on April 4, 2010
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John Z,
"...So, that tends to suggest, that folks who started with venomous snakes at a early age were fairly safe with them. And, it suggests, that folks who were in their 20's probably get more sloppy with time, and familiarity."
As the old saying goes, familiarity breeds contempt.
I remember vividly the first time I held a venomous snake. The jaws were working hard trying to lunge one of those hypodermics into the hand that held it. A very sobering experience that I never forgot. But, for many people, as I noted above...
The reason the teens get bitten less, if the statistics are true, is the added caution that unfamiliarity and fear bring. Both tend to lessen with experience, not always for the better.
Rob also adds, "not having the maturity in simple brain development that has been proven scientifically indicates that young folks should reconsider until they are older"
Per our previous discussion, practically, whether it is physiological or merely a matter of life experience doesn't matter. Rob's comment seems to agree with my convictions, contrary research aside. Whatever the reason, I think eighteen or twenty-one is a minimum and, considering that you're playing with something that can kill people, the latter is the better choice. Three years and a little more experience is not going to ruin your life. If that's the price that has to be paid to assuage the fearful, it is a small price and well worth it.
jrb
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