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RE: Should I Gets my 12 Year Old a Hot ?
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by lanceheads on March 16, 2011
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Where did you get that Temple Vipers never have killed anyone?
Give me the source please.
Randal Berry
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RE: Should I Gets my 12 Year Old a Hot ?
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by varivenom on March 16, 2011
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I think if all precautions are taken it should be fine. I myself got checked and licensed by my state at 12 with no problems and bought a gaboon from a very reputable dealer in florida that I wont name. Didnt recieve my first bite from any ssp in my collection till almost 13 years later. Your son your choice, but my son will get the same option if he shows the responsibility necessary to care for it. Best of luck to you and your son. I know he is excited as hell! Tim
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RE: Should I Gets my 12 Year Old a Hot ?
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by Cro on March 16, 2011
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Dr. Bryan Fry has this to say on his Venomdoc Forum.
"Haven't compared adults to neonates. Wagler's aren't considered to be normally lethal but that is only part of the story. In addition to potentially losing a finger, a bite victim may get effects such as permanent kidney damage that might set them up for problems later in life."
Also, there was an earlier statement about Garter Snakes being "rear fanged," which they are not. They do produce venom, and that venom can make it into bite wounds created by their normal teeth.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Should I Gets my 12 Year Old a Hot ?
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by kaouthiaking on March 16, 2011
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I was actually thinking or hognose snakes but my point was that a garter snakes venom is much less toxic then other snakes venom. Also, although the garters don't secrete the venom through their rear fangs their venom glands are behind their eyes and their rear fangs are significantly larger which would arguably be considered rear fanged. Wikipedia states: "They do have enlarged teeth in the back of their mouth, but their gums are significantly larger". Also, about the Waglers vipers, I have seen people get bitten by them and suffer no noticable iujry except swelling. I have also talked with people who have imported them from areas where they are common and no one has ever reported a death due to them in those areas. The Wagler page on the kingsnake.com website also states that, "Although I have heard of no reported human deaths from Tropidolaemus wagleri envenomation, their fangs are very formidable and the venom can subdue mice in mere seconds" (http://www.kingsnake.com/viper/history.html). Do you have any sources or cases showing a human death due to the bite of a Waglers Viper ?
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RE: Should I Gets my 12 Year Old a Hot ?
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by kaouthiaking on March 16, 2011
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Also I will restate my question, what would you rather get bit by, a Waglers viper or a mamba, cobra, gaboon ?
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RE: Should I Gets my 12 Year Old a Hot ?
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by Cro on March 16, 2011
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There is fairly strong suspicion that there have been deaths due to the bite of Wagler's by a number of experts who work in that part of the world. They attribute the lack of records due to the primitive nature of the areas where the snake is found, with few clinics available, and lack of records.
Eric Worrell suggested using 100 ml of the Thai Red Cross Green Pit Viper Antivenin in treating the bite in severe cases where there was danger of loosing a finger, and to help deal with the pain and swelling, which can be quite bad.
Wagler' might be one of the less dangerous venomous snakes out there, but, a bite should still not be taken lightly, as every bite is different.
There is also the chance of anaphylactic reactions to the venom itself causing respiratory paralysis and shock. That is what killed the fellow last month who was bitten by the copperhead, not the venom itself. For that reason, a EpiPen should be part of your first aid set up if there is a chance of any sort of envenomation.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Should I Gets my 12 Year Old a Hot ?
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by vanerka on March 16, 2011
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I find this entire post to be a bit goofy. Frank, I understand where your coming from but what kind of advice were you looking for on here exactly? It seems to me like you have already had your mind made up on whether or not you were going to let him get one but more along the lines of what you should get him. Im not saying this is good or bad in either case, Im just saying.
You said your other son has a gaboon viper and he learned to handle and properly care for such a dangerous animal with him as your apprentice. What age was it that you had decided to let him aquire his first venomous? Just curious...
He is your son and if you truly feel he has the proper ammount of knowledge and previous experince, lay down the ground rules with him, emergency saftey procedures, proper handeling, and other care techniques necessary for responsible ownership.
And I have to say your from the top down method when I first read that I thought it was kinda crazy. After really putting thought into that, idk, its interesting. Not something I personally would take in for my yet to exist children, but still interesting. If you plan on letting him choose one, provide him a short list of well tempered, less than considerably leathal venomous and Im sure he will be absolutly thrilled.
Good luck and be safe, Eric
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RE: Should I Gets my 12 Year Old a Hot ?
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by CanadianSnakeMan on March 16, 2011
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My personal opinion as someone who both keeps venomous snakes and who has a son would be that you wait a while. There were many good things said about the level of responsibility of a 12 year old and so on, but only you can make that decision.
Another point to take into account is the fact that the mg/Kg dose of venom is proportionally larger if a snake were to bite a child, potentially making an envenomation worse than in an adult... and there are no 'safe' venomous snakes.
The point about learning from the top down dealing with venomous snakes first then working down to less dangerous species just doesn't make any sense to me. You ride a tricycle before you get a bike then a motorcycle, not the other way around. You said that you handle your most aggressive non venomous snakes very differently than your leas aggressive venomous ones because you know they can't harm you. However, if your son were to treat those species EXACTLY the way a venomous snake were to be treated and he went for a considerable period of time without an escape or a bite, that could be the reassurance you and he would need before moving on.
In the army, we don't conduct training exerciese where we're shooting each other with real bullets, but rather we use (quite painful) simulated ammunition to learn from our mistakes so that we develop our skills to prepare us for when the stakes are much higher.
Your question was "Should I get my 12 year old a hot?".
My answer to that question is no. Not yet at least, until he has proven himself on less dangerous aggressive species. I hope that you haven't already made your mind up about this, but it seems like you have.
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RE: Should I Gets my 12 Year Old a Hot ?
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by agkistrodude on March 17, 2011
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One thing to consider that I think John Z touched on, is when your son is talking to his friends at school, or maybe to his science teacher, and the next thing you know DFCS is there taking him from you along with any other children you may have for child endangerment. They don't care about your experience or his. Give this a lot of thought. Take care, Marty
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by Crotalusssp on March 17, 2011
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I have stated before and someone else just repeated it; People who ask questions here many times already have the answer they want to hear in mind and anything other than that answer will be rejected.
About this top-down. I really reject the logic as in most any field the basics are the place to start. Even if basic reptile husbandry is solid to then jump to a potentially lethal/disfiguring biting snake seems like a poor idea. I would also worry about authorities of some sort catching wind of this and taking some sort of action.
This thread is somewhat unnerving.
Everyone be safe and take care.
Charles
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