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RE: Free Handling
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by CHRIS on November 27, 2013
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Just drop the nonsense about using gloves, they serve no use what so ever except moveing rocks. They should never touch a venomous snake. If you have a big urge to hold these snakes in this careless manner than do it in the privacy of your own room. This site could be used for more educational topics. Take care Chris
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RE: Free Handling
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by greenranger on November 28, 2013
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I don't think it's a bad discussion at all or non-educational. Why are the gloves so bad? From what I've read on forums and seen they can take bites and though they are not 100% gauranteed effective all the time what is? What would it take for the whole of the venomous communtiy to accept gloves? If the company through testing and keepers through experience proved that a glove could be effective 99.9% of the time would that be enough? What is the percentage of error in using hooks and shift boxes and anything else? Is it close to the margin of error for the other tools?
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RE: Free Handling
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by wamartin67 on November 29, 2013
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You're missing the point completely. The only reason to post a pic of oneself holding a cobra (when supposedly the intent was to sell it) is to attempt to look cool. This thread was never about gloves vs hooks vs tubes. The purpose of all of these tools is to aid in doing something medically with the snake (removing stuck shed, assist feeding, administering medicine) or removing the snake from the enclosure for cage maintenance, NOT for a photo op.
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RE: Free Handling
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by greenranger on November 30, 2013
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I didn't see the picture and I don't know blackmamba but from what he has said he supports the use of the gloves. If he uses the gloves and stands by them I see no reason why he wouldn't endorse their use as well. It doesnt sound like from the discussion thats gone on that he posted the picture to look cool.
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RE: Free Handling
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by wamartin67 on November 30, 2013
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Whether or not he endorses the gloves is irrelevant. There are uses for the gloves but a photo-op for the public is not one of them. Obviously the moderator who removed the pic agreed as did the moderator over the classified section. I did see the pic before it got taken down and didn't expect it to last long.
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RE: Free Handling
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by Buzztail1 on November 30, 2013
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There is no need to resort to name calling or profanity. Posts with profanity and name calling are routinely removed without notification.
There is a spot on this site to promote items that you feel strongly about (such as these gloves).
It is the Reviews section.
I believe that you can also post a picture in that section although I have not used it in quite a while and could be mistaken.
Either way, the SHHS does not promote free handling, with or without gloves. After much discussion and deliberation amongst the site administrators a long time ago while sitting around a campfire at Appalachicola, we all agreed that free handling was directly opposed to our 3rd mission goal:
"3. To encourage responsible animal husbandry by venomous reptile keepers."
To that end, we will continue to ask people to remove pictures of themselves free handling on this site. Feel free to post them on Face Book or wherever else you might feel is appropriate - just not here.
R/
Karl H. Betz
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RE: Free Handling
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by yoyoing on November 30, 2013
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Does this qualify as name calling?
"Waaaa waaaaa waaaa....just another internet crybaby."
If so, this immature person should be censured.
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RE: Free Handling
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by elapidkeeper on December 1, 2013
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Alright, alright, alright. Here's the bottom line---if you cannot handle a fairly straightforward, and forgive me in advance for using this redundant term but, "beginner" Elapid such as a Monocle Cobra without fear and with confidence with at the MAXIMUM 2 hooks then you were not ready to own such an animal to begin with. Gloves are not reliable of ANY brand, and all manufacturer's of them have a disclaimer that comes with them for 2 reasons---1. Warning you of the potential danger involved with their "impenetrable" equipment in handling venomous reptiles. 2. To cover their own butts from lawsuits in the unfortunate event that a customer is envenomated by a venomous reptile while using their gloves. Furthermore, in keeping a moderately fast moving, unpredictable, and HIGHLY toxic Elapid such as the Naja kaouthia you were trying to sell, you should be aware of the fact that the bite (s) may not occur on your hands/forearms friend. It could be your face! Karl & Marty, I propose that you let him post the ad with a more appropriate picture, before something very unfortunate happens to this gentleman as he obviously is not comfortable in handling this snake.
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RE: Free Handling
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by BlackMamba88 on December 3, 2013
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For everyone interested I posted a copy of the pics here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XlFENJDBvBl3GPtExa7HnZ584v8_8vJ0wvP-frDt_tc/edit?usp=sharing
As you can see there are hooks present in both pics which goes to show that I actually was using the hook in corroboration with the gloves, although I don't think its necessary.
@elapidkeeper Hahaha another good joke. I like all the straw man arguments you guys use. First I posted the pick to show off... lol really ? Like I really want to show off to the old fat men with pot bellies on this site ? Come on guys seriously lol. Then it was that I was advertising for the gloves, now it's I don't know how to use hooks. Elapid keeper, I have been handling monocle cobras, other Naja, and other venomous on hooks since I was 17 years old and first got into this hobby. I don't use the gloves because " I can't use hooks" or because "I need to." I use them because I WANT TO and in my experience and all my years of keeping its what works for me and what I prefer to use. What your arguing doesn't make sense. It's like saying "you drive a Cadillac because you can't drive Honda." The answer is no, Hondas are good, they were my first car, but I prefer to drive a Cadillac.
@Buzztail1 Buzztail, I agree with what your trying to do but again what I did is not free handling and these are not a regular gloves. I really think you guys are on the losing end of this argument. I didn't just pick up a pair of mittens and go grab my cobra. I bought puncture resistant gloves that have been tried and tried again and then tested seriously a third time by me. These gloves have no inherent flaws, might there be a bad batch out there, sure, but again, any tool can be faulty. What your arguing is like saying I should be charged with attempted murder because I shot my nurf gun at someone. Yes, technically my nurf gun is a "gun" but it's not the same as a real gun . Likewise, I shouldn't be charged with "fee handling" when I wasn't, and would never, free handle my snake.
Second, your third mission goal is kind of vague: 3rd mission goal: "To encourage responsible animal husbandry by venomous reptile keepers." I mean, I feel that the safest and most responsible way to handle your snake is however you feel comfortable. Am I against free handling ? 100 %, however, if my neighbor kept monocles and also happened to be an Indian snake charmer and felt that the best way to handle his animals was by free handling because that's how he has done it for the past 20 years I certainly wouldn't call him "unsafe" or "irresponsible." That mission statement is way too broad and vague.
What I find most annoying about this situation is that a while ago I seen a thread on self immunization found here: http://www.venomousreptiles.org/forums/Experts/4360 in which many members of the site blatantly argued that this was a safe practice. Are they insane ? I think people who self immunize with snake venom should be arrested and then thrown into an insane asylum until a therapist deems they are again fit to enter the world. These people are literally experimenting on themselves in an uncontrolled environment with not a single clue as to the long or short term consequences they will suffer. Do you consider this in line with your "3rd mission goal ?" To have people promote injecting themselves with unspecific amounts of snake venom ? My ad was seriously taken down before this thread ? Seems like a very selective and subjective way of doing things.
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