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Venom extraction
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by Kristen on March 10, 2004
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It appears to be a popular question. Here is a direct answer. There are a few well established venom producers in the USA and they have the limited market locked up. Equipment and expertise are what companies look for but also that you follow FDA, animal welfare and CITIES rules. All this costs money and there is little return on keeping 1000 plus animals just to supply venom . KRZ one of the largest venom producers is also a non-profit educational exhibit. Being open to the public helps to fund research projects like the one we are doing with Bothrops in St Lucia and my masters work with Crotalus horridus radio tracking. If you want to work with venoms you need to continue your education and obtain a PHD. The days of stressing animals and forcing venom from them is hopefully over. If you really like the animals don't just extract venom hoping to sell it or to show off, because if not done right you can injury the snake and yourself. We see alot of bites to people attempting to "milk" their snake. The media love to go after these basement scientists which brings more bad press for keepers at a time that we should be showing more caution. I know many have tried to explain in the past about the venom market but I thought coming from a venom producer that has been around over 28 years it might be understood better. There are no short cuts.
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RE: Venom extraction
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by Phobos on March 10, 2004
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Kristen:
I think this topic should be added to the website,it comes up so often.
Best,
Al
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RE: Venom extraction
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by Fabian on March 10, 2004
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That really is the bottom line. There is NO market for venom. I hate it, as do many others. They to would like to make a few dollars with there snakes But, people like the one that posted this has the market tide up. They are able to do what we can only dream about. Sometimes the world is just not fair you guy's.
Fabian
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RE: Venom extraction
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by Phobos on March 11, 2004
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Geee...
Why not allow everyone open their own drug company too? You can make bootleg Viagra and make a lot more money. There are reasons for the way things are. Those are the facts, period.
Al
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RE: Venom extraction
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by JRHarrison on March 11, 2004
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I have read the different posts that Kristen has written. None say that if you go to school and work hard you can not have your dream. They say what I told her when she came here to work "There are no short cuts life is hard and you have to work hard." I believe as the last post stated we have rules on drugs for a reason. If you want to follow those rules and live on a small salary. Then go for it. Kristen is just trying to give you the facts. Knowledge does give you power.
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RE: Venom research and uses
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by Buzztail1 on March 11, 2004
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Jim,
you and Kristen have been very informative in this particular topic on a number of occasions.
The fact is that many people don't get into venomous herps until they are beyond the "normal" age for going to college and digging in to get the background to get that small salary doing what they love. By the time they realize that venom research requires extensive education they often feel that they are beyond going to college.
Just a tidbit about our hobby's folk hero, Bill Haast.
In the early 80's, Bill was on the cutting edge of medical technology with venoms and was trying to promote, among other things, "Cobroxin" as an anti-arthritis medicine. It was available in Mexico for awhile but the USFDA would not touch it. Know why? Bill's lack of formal education was one reason they wrote about in the papers. So, he sold off the Miami Serpentarium, a piece at a time and maintained control of the name. It was reported that he was going west (University of Arizona?) to work with their medical department to get his venom-based medicines accepted backing. Not sure how all that worked out but he is back to keeping venomous snakes and doing research in Florida again but on a much less accessible-to-the-public venue. Just pointing out that someone whose name is as well-known to the world as Bill Haast's has trouble getting their venom discoveries accepted without formal academic backing.
Please bear in mind that I am far from home and am writing all this from memory as I don't have the articles I cut out here with me. Anyone else here remember the closing of the Miami Serpentarium in 1984 or the final disposition of the wonder drug "Cobroxin"?
Karl H. Betz
Buzztail1@hotmail
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RE: Venom research and uses
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by JRHarrison on March 11, 2004
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Bill moved to the VA in Utah after the croc incident. We understand that alot of people have gotten into hots later in life and think its great. I do not have a degree but have peer reviewed and been published in peer reviewed articles. But the old days are gone (for good or bad. Who knows? ) But science is about change and venom work is changing. Bill's days of collecting venom with out geographic data are gone. I have friend s that have gone back to college at older ages one just got out of medical school at 52.
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RE: Venom research and uses
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by LarryDFishel on March 11, 2004
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http://www.miamiserpentarium.com/
Note the physical address on this page. I keep hearing "he moved out west", which he may have done at some point, but he's been back in Florida (Punta Gorda) for many years.
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RE: Venom research and uses
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by JRHarrison on March 11, 2004
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Bill moved back to Fl in the 1990's. The VA Venom lab was pretty much closed after Jim Glenn passed away. Dr Straight now is involved in the production of CroFab and the VA lab is no longer around.
As far as the drug from Cobratoxin it had problems because the FDA tested several batches and they contained bacteria,etc. Also no two batchs tested with in the FDA guidelines for drugs. That is why guidelines are now in place for venom production. So that if something is found in the venoms it can be repeated under FDA guidelines without the samples having problems. If you have any other questions about this subject email at kyreptil@mailhost.mis.net or call between 9:00am and 6:00pm 606-663-9160. We may not have the answer or may not tell you what you would like to hear. But we will give you the information we know.
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RE: Venom extraction
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by Fabian on March 11, 2004
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So when did things change and you have to have a masters degree to do venom extraction ?
Is this trend on venom research, or venom extractions to sell ? I could have swore this was just about why someone could not just milk there snakes and sell the venom. To my knowledge you would not have to go to college to milk a venomous snake and sell it's venom. If there where a market for the venom you would only have to have a nice clean way to gather the venom. not 8 years of college. If this trend is about venom research for give me. I thought it was about why there was not a general market for venom. That answer would still be the same. There are just a few companies that have the market tide up. So what is this trend about ? selling venom ? or venom research ?
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