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RE: Percentage of Dry Bites
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by Tango on June 20, 2004
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Wow, thank you! I wouldn't have thought of that. I do keep epi on hand for my livestock, LOL. I can easily keep some on hand for myself. Seeing as I'm allergic to just about everything, this is a strong possibility. Thanks for the link.
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RE: Percentage of Dry Bites
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by JRHarrison on June 20, 2004
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Dry bites in accidents in the wild appear to be about 40 to 50% with only 5 to 10% being severe envenomations. Snakes developed venom to obtain prey and we are to large to eat so why waste venom.
In captivity we see less dry bites (10 to 20%) probably due to feeding respond bites. Must severe bites I have seen lately have been to keepers feeding.
But until CDC mandates reporting bites all evidence is taken from people observing envenomations and reporting their findings. There are only a small number of bites reported by doctors.
We helped Loma Linda University with a study on defensive bites and feeding responses bites. The paper should be out soon.
Take care
Jim Harrison
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RE: Percentage of Dry Bites
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by Chris_Harper on June 21, 2004
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My personal feeling is that 20% is a gross overstatement when it comes to dry bites. As a person who deals directly with snakebite calls and the victims, I can tell you that the statistics are completely out of whack due to the general lack of snake knowledge among both laymen and medical professionals.
I have personally been called to Black rat snake bites, Corn snake bites, and Water snake bites that WOULD HAVE BEEN LABELED AS "Venomous - No effect" if I hadn't shown up to identify the snakes. Doesn't that make you wonder what percentage of the time that happens in the US? [20% maybe?]
In these same instances, I have also seen non-venomous bite patients on the verge of receiving antivenom had I not shown up. That's scary. And it happens all over the US, every year.
Chris Harper, NREMT-P
EMS Snakebite Instructor
Webmaster@VenomousReptiles.org
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RE: Percentage of Dry Bites
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by Chris_Harper on June 21, 2004
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Also, Bill Haast said that he never had a dry bite. He said that he got at least "some" venom every time he was bitten.
Food for thought.
~CH
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RE: Percentage of Dry Bites
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by Tango on June 21, 2004
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Jim, thanks for your response. I am so glad to hear a study has been conducted and look forward to reading the findings.
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RE: Percentage of Dry Bites
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by Tango on June 21, 2004
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Hi Chris, I never thought of the misidentification of a snake, but that should also play a role in this. I've been bitten many times by wild caught nonvenomous snakes and a few of my captive bred snakes. The bite marks are quite varied and unmistakably not two punctures (or even one puncture) by a fang. I read a little about bite identification recently and while it is not exact, it should at least help medical experts identify a possible venomous bite. Of course if the medical professionals aren't trained it yields little use. The following I just read in _The Merck Manual_
"Venomous snakebites are medical emergencies requiring immediate attention. Before treatment is begun, it must be determined whether the snake is venomous and whether envenomation occurred, because a venomous snake may bite and not inject venom ("dry bites" occur in about 20 to 30% of pit viper bites and in about 50% of coral snakebites). When no envenomation occurs, or if the bite is inflicted by a nonvenomous snake, the bite should be treated as a puncture wound. In all envenomations, it is wise to contact a regional poison control center." http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual/section23/chapter308/308a.jsp
I found a few other sites with basically similar numbers but no documentation. None had documentation. The University fo Georgia is currently conducting a study. It is described here: http://www.uga.edu/srelherp/projects/SNAKEBIT.HTM
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RE: Percentage of Dry Bites
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by Tango on June 21, 2004
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Chris, I don't think I was clear in my original post abouut the cicumstances of the bite. As I read more I am becoming aware of the many distinctions in the field. Mr. Haast's circumstances are exceptional. The University of Georgia study describes the type of bite circumstances I am seeking information on as a "legitimate bite. "A legitimate bite as "(one in which the victim is bitten by a non-captive venomous species without being aware of the presence of the snake) in a natural setting." I think that distinction is important to the numbers I am attempting to find in order to help educate people in the country. The UGA study also says: "Most snakebites in the United States are caused by individuals who are attempting to catch, kill, or handle the snake, often a captive specimen." Those numbers would distort the former numbers considerably, I think.
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RE: Percentage of Dry Bites
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by Fabian on June 21, 2004
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Very good point Chris. I agree that some of the bites that could be considered dry bites are a bite from non-venomous snakes. I went to a few hospitals in are area last week and ask about this years snake bites to see how many bites we have had this year. Are larger hospital told me they have had three or four bites. When I asked what kind of bites the doctor told me they were cottonmouth then said no most were copperhead bites. I asked how they ID the snake bites and was told they have some pictures of snakes to look at.
He showed me the chart they use and I must say it would be very hard to designation between water snakes and cottonmouths or copperheads for that matter. I would say for the most part they have to go by symptoms and not the snake ID. So I could see how a non-venomous bite could be confessed for a dry bite......Fabian
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RE: Percentage of Dry Bites
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by GREGLONGHURST on June 21, 2004
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Not sure where you heard that a majority of bites are dry. The vast majority, however, especially in the U.S., are survivable. Probably close to forty percent are dry or low grade bites that require little, if any antivenin. Of the remainder, prompt & proper medical treatment will lead to a very high survival rate. This is not to say that a bite is something one might look forward to..even though you will probably survive, the pain both to the body & to the wallet are not to be anticipated.
~~Greg~~
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RE: Percentage of Dry Bites
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by Nightflight99 on June 22, 2004
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An interesting topic. In a 2001 study by Young & Zahn on the mechanics of venom flow in rattlesnakes, 35% of strikes yielded 'dry bites'. They also determined that the amount of venom injected in defensive strikes was significantly higher than in feeding strikes.
~TE
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