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RE: Stoping the venomoid practice?
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by Mustangrde1 on December 21, 2004
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Karl is Correct in that it seems when people in the hobby/industry call for help in a cause most people all the sudden seam to have something come up.
I find it frustrating many days when people ask,"How do we stop these hackers" I have said it till im blue in the face. Call the local authorities call Aphis call the AVMA. I have posted those numbers many times and yet these people still conduct thier bussiness and for the most part illegally.
It is a CRIME to conduct this type of surgical procedure under Aphis Guidelines by anyone other then a licensed vet. It is against the Veterinary Oath Morally to do the procedure. Very very few vet will preform it.
You ask how to stop it simple. Request all sites to not allow them to be sold or offered in any way on their respective classifieds without PROPER LEGAL documentation of the procedure done by a licensed vet.Have your friends e-mail the sites as well they tend to listen when most members agree on something.
You make it known to whom is selling animals and thier bussiness practices. Funny if you do a websearch on most of them they are all over many diffrent sites Boards Of Inquiry and always as BAD GUYS.
It will be next to impossible to stop the alterations if done by a vet but it is possible to stop the sales from people who do it themselves or do not have the legally required medical history of the animals. Then again it takes people finding themselves not to busy for about 1 hour to make the phone calls to the proper authorities with some degree of intelligance in the call and not anger.
You want to stop it? Well it starts with you making the phone calls. One person calling doesnt get much attention, but hundreds calling does!
I wrote the venomoid petetion. I Know how many people were all for it and swore it would be signed yet I do not see near the amount of names on it as swore would be on it. Again its strange how people do not want to be counted yet are willing to voice their opinions when they can hide behind a screen name. My name is on it and I am no stranger to publically taking on the Hacker of the trade. Then again I place my love for tha animals and my Morals where everyone can see them not hidden behind a fake name.
No offence to anyone life is yours to say or do as you see fit.
Scott Bice
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RE: Stoping the venomoid practice?
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Anonymous post on December 22, 2004
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I salute and endorse(d) the venomoid petition you put together. Nice work. What's it's progress? Please advise.
PHONE CALLS:
I am skeptical about the efficiency of this approach.
Phone calls create awareness to those outside the community. Voicing a stance from a societal stance creates awareness from within the community. This is the point. It's not the person who dislikes snakes that buys a venomoid. It's the "would-be" hobbyist that buys a venomoid. How will phone calls to Aphis/AVMA directly make the change in the hobbyist? How will a VOICED ethical standard influence him/her? The solution everso clearly presents itself. Phone calls should raise an eyebrow to hacking. I have an open mind and a few things to say. What are the numbers? I'll call.
Websites:
Interesting proposal regarding the websites. Do you think Jeff Barringer will bite? What about the others? It's worth a try. It's a step in the right direction, yes, but productive overall? Maybe. Efficient? Maybe also. We'll see. Its is a good idea. Are you going to do it? Do I need to do it? Who? Tell you what....YOU get ALL the information together with reference to animal cruelty, surgical procedures performed outside a vet setting, etc (I Need all the info you have)., and I will draft a proposal for cooperation, and submit it. Deal?
My anonymity is NOT the point. My anonymity has NEVER been the point. My anonymity, here and now, IS NOT a distraction from this point. You either "Support Venomoids" or YOU "DO NOT Support Venomoids". Lack of a position results in a supportive position.
If you want to know more about who I am then check the "Experts" Search Engine, type "Phantom", then go.
More Phantom Rhetoric:
http://www.venomousreptiles.org/forums/Experts/11431
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RE: Stoping the venomoid practice?
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Anonymous post on December 22, 2004
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You know what everyone? Apologies. The heated debate has lost the point, and there is no disrespect intended. I'm going to take a breather and go haunt some other forums for awhile.
-The Phantom
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RE: Stoping the venomoid practice?
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by Nightflight99 on December 22, 2004
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The position of the SHHS not to take a specified position on the venomoid issue is a strategic one. Compared to many other interest groups, the venomous reptile community is relatively small and unstructured. Due to the nature of the hobby, many people prefer to remain discrete about the animals they keep, which contributes to the lack of unity and communal support that is evident throughout venomous herpetoculture. The SHHS was founded with a number of goals in mind, specifically information exchange, conservation, responsible husbandry, education and to serve as an information clearinghouse. These are our missions, so the direction we take is ideally directly alinged with those goals. The venomoid issue is frequently debated among the SHHS leadership, and not everyone agrees with the path that we take on that issue. Nonetheless, the decision was made with the organizational strength and its ability to reach its goals in mind.
Personally, I severely disklike venomoids and despise those who create them. However, the problem that I have with venomoids are based on ethics, moreso than on any other aspect. At the same time, I also believe that venomoids are a rather small problem in the scope of things. Habitat destruction and fragmentation, the current nationwide legislative trend and many other issues are significantly more imminent and important than ousting a few egoistic hackers with low moral standards. If people were to put the same amount of effort into some of these clearly more important issues, then the community would be much more powerful and effective as a whole. How many people are proactively working to prevent excessive legislation? Not many. How many people are working together with their legislators to implement a permit system in their state that will protect their rights? Not many. Everyone cries bloody murder after the fact, but hardly anyone is willing to dedicate their time to it before something occurs. People love to rant and ramble, but let somebody elese do the leg work.
Another example is the abundance of sub-standard keepers. Who is providing mentorship, leadership and guidance to these keepers? People keep their venomous reptiles the same way they keep their salads and then wonder why society perceives them as less than sane. Why aren't such obviously lacking husbandry methods despised the way that venomoids are despised? Even dealers advertise some of the worst husbandry methods through their advertisements on a daily basis. There are many problems that are likely to pose an imminent threat to venomous herpetoculture, but venomoids - while certainly an important issue that should be adressed - are definitely not among those crucial topics at this point.
If the SHHS begins to sort its members according to goals other than those specified in the mission statement, then this will weaken the organization's ability to reach those goals. We currently have members from both sides of the fence, and we only have a handful of people who are actively dedicating their time and effort to get things done. Eliminating one side of this fence is extremely unlikely to remedy that situation - in fact, it is likely to be counterpoductive.
That being said, the SHHS does not support exploitation or illegal acts involving venomous reptiles. This includes illegally producing, selling or shipping venomoids.
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RE: Stoping the venomoid practice?
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by Chris_Harper on December 22, 2004
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"Divide and conquer" -- The strategy of every general that ever fought a battle.
But I'll bite anyway. Venomoiding, yep it's definitely in the category of questionable practices. But I have several questions for the "The Phantom" who ironically, wouldn't have a venue to voice his opinion without the hard work of "other people":
I keep hearing about people wanting to get venomoids "banned" via a petition. To whom will this "anti-venomoiding petition" be given? Normally when a petition is signed, it is turned into a government official of some kind. Are all of the people signing the petition voters that this official needs to please? Or do you just expect the venomoid people to see the petition, feel bad about themselves and stop of their own accord?
By what authority would a ban on venomoids be enforced? Who will enforce it? Has ANYONE thought this through? Someone please explain to me the process by which venomoiding will be legally banned. I don't get it. It just seems like a lot of wasted effort that will accomplish absolutely nothing. I'm not convinced that one single snake will be spared because of the petition or because the SHHS takes up the antivenomoiding banner. So, what's the game plan? Fill me in. Again, I don't get it.
In actuality, I think that the government would be more likely to approve the keeping of venomous reptiles with the stipulation that they be surgically altered. 99% of the public hates venomous snakes. Take a poll on any street corner.
And please, tell me, what is the benefit of the SHHS taking a position against venomoids. Can you promise me that there'll be a notable decline in the number of venomoids produced? Outline a tangible benefit that will enable us to accomplish our primary goals with the very limited resources we have, and maybe I'll listen to you.
Let's say for instance that we have 5 thousand followers, 35% of which either own or condone the practice of venomoiding, what will be our gain for alienating 1750 of them? How does that aid in the overall conservation of venomous snakes - which is really our stated goal?
What if you only have the resources to pick one -- Which would you pick? Is our war with people who kill every snake they find, or is it with venomoiders?
I guess you have a better plan than I do, because I've had a hard enough time trying to convince people simply not to kill snakes, much less solve every ethical problem that occurs within the venomous community. Seen any snakes lately that were malnourished, dehydrated, overheated, underheated or living in their own excrement?
And hey Phantom, I've got another issue for you to solve for me. Check out the following article and let me know if the author has any valid points, and if so, will it change your behavior or will you just adopt a philosophy that fits the behavior that you already practice?
http://www.venomousreptiles.org/articles/22
Oh yeah, PETA is getting a petition signed to stop you from being able to keep snakes in captivity. They have thousands of legit signatures, and celebrity supporters. What are you going to do about it?
Your myopic viewpoint doesn't take into account the other threats that this community faces. Due to the lack of community participation, we simply must pick our fights carefully.
~CH
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RE: Stoping the venomoid practice?
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by Mustangrde1 on December 22, 2004
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Chris. I the Petition is not to BAN venomoids it is to officials off their prospective behinds and enforce the laws and go after the people perfroming the surgery illegally. Banning any reptile is furthest from anything i would want to see.
As to whom it goes to every state official and federal official who enforces the laws. In writing it many official said that only by such a action would there be any chance of getting enforcement of the already exsisting laws. It is annoying to me that it took doing something like that to try and get enforcement to laws already on the books.
With the support and names on it though hopefully some officials will respond. It is also a way to show officials that we are not the freaks many people see reptile keepers as and that we are trying to self police our hobby.
You can e-mail me anytime if you have questions I can give you my number which your welcome to call as well.
Scott Bice
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RE: Stoping the venomoid practice?
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by ALA_herp31 on December 23, 2004
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Ya'll, I really did not mean to start a rough debate over this subject. I just wish all of us as responsible herpers could agree on a method to eliminate this barbaric practice, I truly hope that we can save more and more of our beloved Reptiles from suffering anymore than they have already. Snakes have been persecuted enough as it is, they surely don’t need this huu? I am sorry if my question was responsible for this heated debate....Be safe ya'll, happy herping Wally
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For Chris
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Anonymous post on December 24, 2004
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I read the article you referenced to. It’s a nice article. There is no need to change my behavior as I am already actively involved in the contents like he described……and like that of those the SHHS currently adheres to. I also am doing it alone. And if you’re referring to my anonymity come on……you 3 gents know exactly who this is. As I share your ideals, I imagine we’ll talk more on a personal level very soon.
I fail to see the irony of me using your website based on the hard work of other people, to voice my opinion. Perhaps further clarification is needed, as my Phantom intuition is detecting sarcasm. This is not an attack on anyone, or the SHHS. I am debating this position they take because I think this is wrong. I appreciate, admire, and share as well in the same conservation efforts you do. I hope it’s clear this time.
I would enjoy an outright ban on venomoids, but that’s not what I am saying. I’d like to see the SHHS take a position on this as well as a few others. I believe societal condemnation will reduce active venomidoing as many novice venomous hobbyists look to the SHHS for guidance. It’s unrealistic to promise a decline in venomoids with such a policy, but wouldn’t you agree that such a policy will do so much more to help? I was unaware you guys were so desperately in need of participation. Sorry. I’ll be happy to help you. If you don’t ever choose to agree and support this position that is the society’s choice. My choice will be to pursue this crusade on my own. I’m not kidding either. An established organization like the SHHS would probably prove to be a better sounding board than trying to start a new organization. I would rather see the effort done here. Venomoids are just the tip of the iceberg of problems that Venomous Herpetoculture faces, but I propose in addition to societal condemnation, an incomplete, very rough drafted proposal outlining my personal ideologies of “venomous herpetocultural reform”. Reform is needed. We have problems, and I have proposed solutions. Maybe the SHHS can take something from it to address their concerns? I hope so.
Divide and conquer? I prefer, “Exclusi-fy and conquer”. Behold, my myopic, phantomic, vision…..
The SHHS Mission Statement
http://www.venomousreptiles.org/about/about
2. To promote conservation and protection of venomous reptiles.
3. To encourage responsible animal husbandry by venomous reptile keepers.
A point if I may, if the mission statement’s are labeled in order that the society deems of priority, then there is nothing more to say. Your case is made and I understand.
However, I also feel its worth mentioning that “responsible animal husbandry” by our venomous keepers is directly related to “conservation and protection of venomous reptiles”. The article you cited suggests captive husbandry relates to conservation and protection. So where does the society draw the line with such limited resources?. What do we do about the PETA issue? What about the other legal issues? Venomoids? Other unethical issues? How can we as a community remain in pursuit of our “Conservation Oriented Goals” while seeking to protect ourselves from damning legislation proposed by opposing interest groups? I think the answer lies that our community should give ourselves an honest evaluation. The efforts of the herpetoculturist are directly related to conservation and protection of venomous reptiles. Active venomoiding is a contradiction to responsible animal husbandry.
Also:
#2 “protection of venomous reptiles”? – Is condemning active venomoiding protecting, or attempting to protect venomous reptiles? What am I missing?
Step 1 Condemning Active Venomoiding
Active venomoiding contradicts responsible venomous reptile husbandry as it promotes:
*Unnecessary, senseless pain for snakes
*Jeopardizes their (the snakes) livelihood
*complacent, unsafe, handling ideologies
*the ever growing “hacking trend” shadowing the active trade
*violating circumstances not protecting venomous reptiles (see #2)
*Other
The benefits of condemning “Active Venomoiding” are multiple. They are:
*protecting venomous reptiles
*an all around, just, and ethical gesture/an integral boost
*a forced application of subjective respect need with reference to venomous reptiles
*giving the opportunity to actively promote and explain the position more
*because it’s the right thing to do
Step 2 Applying the policy:
Conditions of Policy:
-New Members may join, who own venomoids, but are prohibited from buying, selling, their current specimens or further engaging in the trade
-Existing Members may continue membership, but are prohibited from buying, selling, their current specimens or engaging in the trade
What do you think? You think it will piss some people off? Probably so. If someone deems their active venomoiding as more important than conservation efforts than what does the society lose if they quit? What do snakes in general lose if they quit? What do snakes gain? I am optimistic that that an active stance once established will protect some.
VENOMOUS HERPETOCULTURAL REFORM - a brainstorm - hypothetically speaking - proposed ideas
Definition: A proposed set of ideas outlining common ethics, acknowledged, admired and applied by becoming Venomous Herpetoculturists.
Objective: a dictatorial approach to establish a synergy, identifying and installing crucial, ethical principles in the hobbyist seeking to preserve and further advance venomous herpetoculture as a safe, legal hobby
. "THE VENOMOUS HERPETOCULTURIST-CODES OF CONDUCT"
(This is a crude rough draft, but just to give you an idea, as to what we should be....to identify what I admire of "the Elite".)
To me, the venomous herpetoculturist is among the most “elite” of keepers. He/she must have sufficient knowledge on basic husbandry, veterinary husbandry, first aid, venom /antivenin, proper tools, proper housing, evaluating animal body language, and assessing potential risks to name a few. In addition these elite keepers must manipulate the animals they house without using their hands instead relying on tools to manipulate their specimens. We should be the Elite, but we’re not. Why? Our hobby is growing. As anyone can testify, bites from venomous reptiles occur mainly to those that interact with them on a day to day basis. As our hobby grows, the number of snakebites will indefinitely grow too. As more and more catastrophic events unfold involving these elite, astray herpetoculturists, our hobby becomes more and more subject to risks of being shut down. So what do we do? We have all of these novice interests, but very little to offer them in reference to suggested, fundamental, guidance. I know it sounds like Boy Scouts, but please make a note of the following:
(not listed in order of importance)
1. The Elite Venomous Herpetoculturist respects and abides by the law.
2. The Elite Venomous Herpetoculturist practices safe housing and handling methods.
3. The Elite Venomous Herpetoculturist respects the ultimate commitment and obligation of the best interests of the animals.
4. The Elite Venomous Herpetoculturist practices sound, disciplined husbandry methods.
5. The Elite Venomous Herpetoculturist gives back to his/her community
6. The Elite Venomous Herpetoculturist respects their peers
7. The Elite Venomous Herpetoculturist welcomes and embraces new interests.
8. The Elite Venomous Herpetoculturist is conservation oriented.
9. The Elite Venomous Herpetoculturist shares their knowledge.
10. The Elite Venomous Herpetoculturist never cheats anyone.
11. The Elite Venomous Herpetoculturist appreciates their personal reflection displayed in their specimens.
12. The Elite Venomous Herpetoculturist stocks their own antivenin for the exotic species kept.
13. The Elite Venomous Herpetoculturist practices legal ethics in conducting all Commerce transactions.
14. The Elite Venomous Herpetoculturist only uses legally approved methods of shipping.
15. The Elite Venomous Herpetoculturist condemns venomoid trading.
16. The Elite Venomous Herpetoculturist has a prepared snakebite protocol
More....you get the point. The Codes should attempt to thoroughly address all potential aspects of venomous herpetoculture.
These principles present responsible structure to combat potential litigation if the need arises. It shows we have integrity and we aren’t just a bunch of fools. A society endorsed view should be reflected in it’s members. All members should be tested over these points to given credibility. Perhaps when the test is passed (it should be reasonable) then entrance will be granted within the society after additional considerations have been met.
After the applicant has been tested, perhaps they should rectify their views and the views of the society by signing a sworn statement. This also creates accountability and could go something like,
" I, ___________ ,do solemnly swear, as a member of the Phanotm's Nazi organization, that I will obey and excute, to the best of my ability....yada, yada, yada.
You get my point? If we as a society establish and identify an ethical code of behavior deemed appropriate then integrity is established, and it can be verified. If we enforce our own policing policy, we will also develop a better candidate for venomous reptiles. In addition to this, we also teach respect. If we help develop more respectable herpetoculturists, we develop a safer, more respectable hobby. We develop a safer , more respectable hobby, we save our hobby.
In addition, to the described criteria the hobbyists who wish to become active members should submit their current inventory, their issued permit(s) (if applicable), and their state and local wildlife ordinances to the society for review. Far fetched? More work? Definitely more work. Wouldn’t you agree as an acting society that this work would give us credibility facing potential attacks? A checks and balances system is in place, and I feel it decreases the potential liabilities. If the organization actively seeks that it’s participants are:
-Ethically, informed
-Experienced, knowledgeable
-Legal
-Safe
-Prepared
-Disciplined
Then they are going to have a more difficult fight to take our animals away from us. Perhaps licensing can be issued through the society?
Membership
A basic introductory level - those who enjoy fellowship, prospective, new members
Members - Venomous Herpetoculturist
-Verified legally
-Sworn In
-Tested over the Code
Honorary Members
-Possessing all of the above +
-Stocking antivenin
The purpose of the "Honorary members" is to create a desired, achieved, status, as the status is admireable of any becoming hobbyist. The position is also designed to more positively reinforce the hobbyists interest in pursuing the acquisition of his/her own serum. A position all zoos would adore. This is the way it should be anyway. By what token can they take our reptiles away from us if we are supplying our own serum? This would also help to combat legislation as just maybe…..zoos can consider testifying and lobbying on behalf of the private keeper. To assist the candidacy of the elite hot keeper, the society has documented proof and sworn testimony that the hobbyist is well prepared, and perhaps they could submit a formal letter of recommendation on behalf of the society, to assist the interest in obtaining a doctor’s participation. This is possible. Still think my view is, “myopic”?
It’s a more structured CHECKS AND BALANCES system
The Law will certainly keep us in check, if we do not start checking ourselves more closely. Many ethical issues need to be addressed and dealt with in order to make this a better hobby for everyone, and this isn’t exclusive to venomoids.
Reasons for banning venomous reptiles
*Outright prejudice
*Irresponsible, Unsafe, Substandard Keeping
*Illegal Commerce and Trade
*Snakebite related injuries
-Antivenin Issue
-Handler Liability
*Many others….
The conversation started about venomoids, and as other issues became addressed, I felt this worthy conversation. Publicly condemning venomoids is the beginning crucial step to making hobbyists better, making the hobby better, and saving venomous snakes. According to your mission statement, you should be doing it anyway. I would like to help and fully intend to. You can count me in.
Yours,
-The Phantom
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For Thomas and Scott
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Anonymous post on December 24, 2004
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TE,
Points noted, thanks. Any additional questions or comments? I'm beat. Merry Christmas.
Scott,
I think you have a good idea about the "venomoid verification curricula" for classified website ads. Do you have any information regarding any laws addressing home based procedures? Merry Christmas to you too.
-The Phantom
PS Merry X-mas also to CH, Wally, and everybody else......well everybody except Karl.......no..no Karl, I'm kidding(LOL) Merry Christmas to you too, bro.
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by Mustangrde1 on December 25, 2004
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WANT LAWS HERE YA GO.
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ac/policy/policy3.pdf
As to Hot Keepers being Elite. This is my very standard responce.
Venomous keepers have had a reputation I have heard and seen misconstrued by many people of them being “Elite”. Something I have thought about for a while and just really sunk in this weekend in speaking with a good friend. I thought maybe a look in to some of what Venomous Keepers do and the lifestyles related to our venomous charges might help the other reptile keepers understand us better.
We are not elite or above anyone, In fact many of us started with non-venomous and still keep them in our collections. Just like many in the hobby we breed them sell them collect them. From Boa Constrictors to Corn Snakes time and effort is put in to each individual animal with the same love and compassion. Where we stand apart in the minority of the hobby is we keep the highly deadly creatures by term of venom.
I sometimes find that amusing because once you get past the mystique of venom they are but another reptile. Large constrictors as well as crocodilian are fully capable of killing a person just as dead. Large Varanus are capable of inflicting disfiguring bites. All these animals have something in common they are all capable of inflicting major damage to the keeper if certain safety protocols are not in place. Yet many people keep them and find them rather simple to work with.
Many Venomous Keepers find their animals simple to work with as well. This is from the time and experience put into them just like the time and effort large constrictor, crocodilian ball python or even corn snake keepers put in to their charges. This by no means should encourage that anyone should go out and purchase a venomous reptile because they can handle aggressive non-venomous species. In fact I discourage it strongly to minors or persons with small children.
Many venomous keepers seriously have altered their houses or at least one room to be completely escape proof and invested large amounts of time and money in the remodeling of the room and cages. If we can use the State of Florida for an example as to the degree one must put into learning and education they must obtain before being allowed to own a venomous reptile I think it will show some what of the cost some venomous keepers must face. The Law in Florida is in brief that a person must have no less than 1 year not to be less than 1000 hours in the “Care, Feeding, Handling, Husbandry of the species for which the permit is sought.” With this in mind most persons who wish to go through the process and obtain their Venomous Reptiles Permit” VRL” do so as volunteers with persons who own the species that the trainee wishes some day own. As volunteers by nature are NOT paid for their time and efforts it is done at the expense of the trainee.
If one was to look at the potential cost for this training it shows a very high level of commitment and personal cost. Factoring in that the average pet shop employee is making for sake of argument $7.00 and hour then over the training period of 1000 hours it equates to $7,000.00 of the trainees time. Factoring in the for other expenses such as gas and food during training of another $1,000.00 and then looking at the high probability that the trainee purchases literature and or does web research we can easily factor in another $2,000.00 in time and publications.
Now we can not forget caging, Venomous reptiles require locking escape proof caging and most keepers go with high dollar cages for piece of mind such as Vision, Neodesha , Precision and the like. The price on these cages and other caging needs can easily reach $1,000.00. So we are looking at a potential out of pocket expense of $11,000.00 for that first venomous snake. Ok so some of you are saying no way. Well think about it how, much are you paid an hour at work? Or how much have you spent on caging or reptile related products and books? It is a very real number when factoring it all in to account. That is one hell of an expensive first snake and I didn’t even factor in the animals cost or actual cost for permits.
Training is always a difficult prospect in the aspect you must first locate someone to train you. This can be a very difficult task and one that may lend to the “Elite” misconception people perhaps view Venomous keepers in that light because many when approached refuse to help train. This can be explained in that the financial responsibilities if a trainee were to be bitten can be great. Also many of these people are afraid of taking on persons who may not have the right attitude for handling potentially lethal creatures. Others may just not want people knowing fully what is in their collection and are worried that if it was known animals could be stolen or the potential trainee decides to start bringing friends over to show off, which again lends to financial responsibility to the owner of the animals. Some of these people just like to be left alone as well.
Now if you are able to locate a person willing to train you. You should feel very comfortable with this person at all times. Your life is in his/her hands as their life is in yours. Unlike dealing with non-venomous where a bite be it painful it is not going to be disfiguring or fatal. Some persons who have started training have stopped due to the harshness of the trainer. The seriousness of the trainer is viewed as well as “Elite” which in fact is not. It is however from experience and knowledge of the species and their potential dangers much stricter in discipline.
Working with dangerous species be they venomous reptiles large constrictor, Varanus species, Crocodilians or even big cats or other large carnivores does require much more attention to safety and a seriousness not associated with species that are considered less dangerous to humans. Working with all the above animals is never and should never be allowed by novice persons with no experience in the nature or habits of the animals involved. All animal have certain predictable traits within the species but each animal’s temperament and attitude can vary greatly within the same species including siblings / clutch mates. This is where training comes in with experienced persons in their prospective fields or hobbies.
A good trainer can make you aware of the natural traits of similarity and prepare you for the surprises that can also be found within the species. These people have seen many things and have learned to deal with them as they arise. In speaking to many persons who have dealt with animals categorized as “Dangerous” one thing I have found is the overwhelming importance of remaining calm under all conditions. In some peoples minds a very calm attitude is perceived as “Elite”. This is not true at all. It is something gained over years of experience in working with particular species.
In some cases however people are seen doing highly dangerous acts with very dangerous animals. Keep in mind this is not an “Elite” attitude. Many of the acts you see on television or in a circus or other amusement arena are under highly controlled circumstances. There are many safety protocols and large crews on hand for added safety. These are shows designed to gain ratings or bring in the general public for profit.
Free handling of venomous snakes is another example of why people think of venomous keepers as “Elite” This is not a wise idea by any stretch of the imagination. In fact many venomous keepers frown on this activity. Again this is done in many cases with extreme safety protocols in place. Or devenomised reptiles being used. This action and these animals are in fact a danger to our hobby in a whole in many ways. But that’s for other discussions.
It really comes down to the keeper’s attitude as perceived by others. I have read and met many keepers of numerous species not just reptiles that do have an “elite” attitude and for myself have no respect for these people or their followers. It is these people and their mental aspect that they are “Elite” and better then everyone else that gives any hobby or group within hobby bad names. Venomous keepers are no better or worse then any other group of persons. The major difference however is the overwhelming amount of personal time and research we must for our safety put in to certain aspects of our hobby. Not to take away from any one group or add to any one group. It is just any group of persons dealing with a potentially dangerous animal or hobby does have to put a little more in to it then a group of people not working with potentially dangerous activities.
If you look at driving for instance it is required that a person must obtain a license and pass a test under supervision. Driving is a dangerous activity and thus is regulated. Venomous reptile keeping is becoming more and more regulated. Because of these laws I see more people will soon be coming to current keepers and asking for help. Remember to respect and listen to these teachers and their advice. Remember they are not gods or “Elite” in any way but like their counterparts in other dangerous hobbies they have the experience needed.
Many people like placing pictures of them and their animals on the web or in magazines. General perception of any “Dangerous” animal and their handlers is viewed as by some crazy or persons with large egos or other opinions based on lack of understanding of the person or time they have spent learning about that particular species. You can hear it in a crowd or even read it on the net and much of what you hear or read comes off as “Elite” Again this is not true it is something anyone can do with proper training and understanding of the species.
I have never bungee jumped but I am sure with proper training and advice I could. If a person has the right mentality and the reflexes to handle and work with these animals and in some cases that sixth sense to predict them before they act it does not make them better or worse the anyone else and certainly does not make them “Elite.”
Venomous reptile keeping is certainly not for everyone and not everyone should own or work with them. Just like working with the large carnivores is not for everyone.
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