|
RE: www.venomoidreptiles.org ????
|
Reply
|
|
by sceniccityreptiles on March 7, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Nope, I understand fully the purpose of your post. You think you have the right to decide what snakes people should have and what they should do with them. I feel exactly the opposite. If a guy wants a void, he has as much right that that you do to keep those rattlesnakes you are always advertising. If he wants to free hand that void, he has as much right to do that as you have to keep your rattlers. If he wants to freehand a hot gaboon, he has as much right to do that as you have to keep your rattlesnake. My point it simple, you would not like me telling you that you can’t keep your rattlesnakes or that you shouldn’t do something with your rattlesnakes, but you want to suppress the rights of this other guy because you do not agree with him. I don’t care for voids, but I can’t justify telling others they can’t have them cause the general public has told me for years I shouldn’t have my cottonmouths and know how that feels. Now, we have put lots of money and energy into this site, so we now have the right to decide what goes on it. That is a little different matter. Karl has put in more then almost anyone and he decided the photo should go, so I stand by that decision, however, my personal option remains the same, live and let live. If he wants a void and wants to handle a void, that is his affaires and not mine or yours. And I know someone will come behind me and say, yeah but someone will see a picture of him handling it and go try to do it. Now, who is really stupid enough to pick up a venomous snakes because they saw a picture of someone else doing it? And even if such stupidity existed there are plenty of photos of high profile people free handling snakes. Bill Haast, Ray Hunter, Silas Crawford has all been featured on TV free handling. You can find photos of them all over the internet. I have a pick of Silas on our herp society page holding a hot puff adder like it was a ball python. If I thought for a second that would lead some moron to pick up a puff, I wouldn’t have it there. But I have much more faith in the human condition. I just do not think there is anyone that stupid in the world. The people that I have made the decision to handle venomous snakes did not do it based on a photo of someone they saw.
|
| |
|
RE: www.venomoidreptiles.org ????
|
Reply
|
|
by toddg on March 7, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I'm a little confused here. I thought the goals of this website were this:
Our Mission Statement
The main goals of the Southeastern Hot Herp Society are:
1. To provide a forum for the information exchange on the ecology, natural history and behavior of venomous reptiles.
2. To promote conservation and protection of venomous reptiles.
3. To encourage responsible animal husbandry by venomous reptile keepers.
4. To educate the general public to the benefits of venomous reptiles in nature.
5. To serve as a clearinghouse of information on venomous reptiles
Now like I said, it IS your web site and do with it what you will but it seems to me that the fellow who posted the free handling of the venomoid add conflicts with at least two of your goals at some level. Forgive me, I have no wish to appear argumentitive or ofensive toward anyone but where exactly do you draw the line on classifieds? Rattlesnake roundups? No one is tellinig anyone here what they can or can't have but it seems to me that the same standards that you hold yourselvs to should also be aspired to by those that post here. In the forums as well as the classifieds. As it turns out at least one of the web site team saw fit to remove the add and in my opinion (I may be in the minority here) rightfully so.
toddg
|
| |
|
RE: www.venomoidreptiles.org ????
|
Reply
|
|
by idioteque4444 on March 7, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Chuck: Again, I don't believe you got the point of my first post. It was not to police the keeping of Venomoids. It was to point out what can hurt our hobby. In your profile you go on about the "likelihoods of prohibition". I think I speak for most people on this site when I say that free handling Venomous snakes, even if they are altered, is something that can only hurt the venomous community. Especially, when it is advertised. In your profile you seem real sincere about venomous reptiles and what can hurt the hobby. But, in your reply to my post you sound as if you have no care about who handles what, and who gets bit, and what states decide to ban these animals for this reason. And your statement about high profile people is questionable. Bill Haast free-handles and HAS been bit. And I don't exactly consider Silas Crawford as a "high profile person". Certainly not when he is free-handling a Puff Adder like a Ball Python. These are the kinds of poeple who get bit. I know Silas and I am against some of his reasons for free-handling venomous snakes. As I have said before in other posts, no one on this site is about anyone or more high profile than anyone. We are all humans, and mistakes happen. Especially when people get cocky about how much they know or how long they have been working with hots. On your website you sell containers that say "DANGER VENOMOUS REPTILES". But yet, youre saying that handling these "dangerous venomous reptiles" is a "live and let live" situation. Again, I am not debating venomoids. I dont care what you, Bill Haast, Ray Hunter, or Silas Crawford do. But, I do care about venomous reptiles. And, I do enjoy keeping. And, I will voice my opinion on this subject if I feel that it is something that can hurt what we are all on this site for, and what we love. And, I know I am not alone on this. I hope no offense is taken in this post. A friendly debate is always good !!!!
SAL @ WNCHerps
p.s. I agree with your post Todd.
|
| |
|
RE: www.venomoidreptiles.org ????
|
Reply
|
|
by toddg on March 7, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
The previous post was from a deranged and jealous non- venomous keeper and does not nescicarrily reflect the views of SHHS staff.
toodg
|
| |
|
RE: www.venomoidreptiles.org ????
|
Reply
|
|
by petra on March 7, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I know I'm not an expert and have not much of a business posting here but, even I can clearly see that this is just a play of emotions and it doesn't do much good to keep this subject going. People are getting unnecessarily offended and no one is going to change anything.
The pic which started this subject was removed so it's OK now.
People who made this site did a great job and it is one of my favorite sites I visit daily - there is a lot of better subjects to discuss so let's forget about this one.
And just one more thing - unfortunately there are people out there stupid enough to free handle hots just because they saw it on a picture and want to be cool just like "that guy"-age range 13-17 year old. Try to visit some venomous forums like reptizone.com - it is pretty sad. And when a child gets bitten it will help to ban venomous.
|
| |
|
RE: www.venomoidreptiles.org ????
|
Reply
|
|
by Buzztail1 on March 7, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I would like to see this debate end.
The fact of the matter is that venomoids are legal in some places and not in others just like venomous.
I do not care if someone wants to keep venomoids.
Some people do.
I do not mind that some people keep mambas.
Some people do.
Posting pictures of free handling venomous or venomoid animals in the classifieds where they may be viewed by people who may or may not understand the dangerousness of such handling is not within the tenets of our group.
We try to promote safe handling and keeping.
There are other free handling pictures in various places on this site and I do not intend to hunt them down and have them removed. However, I do not intend to allow them in the classifieds. This is not a new stance. It has been that way for years and Chris has backed me on every single removal.
In other words...
If you keep venomous fine.
If you keep venomoids fine.
If you free handle fine.
All of that is within your rights to do if it is legal where you live.
If you post pictures of it in our classifieds I will remove it because that is within my rights to do.
What you do in the privacy of your own home is up to you.
Once you post it online, that is no longer within the privacy of your own home, and I don't feel inclined to allow it here.
Karl
|
| |
|
RE: www.venomoidreptiles.org ????
|
Reply
|
|
by tj on March 8, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"live and let live"
That's interesting, I think the same way, but my opinion happens to be live and let the snakes live. You know, the snakes that don't have a choice as to whether or not they have their glands cut out by someone that is not a DVM. Glands that are cut out simply for the sole purpose of putting money in someone's so that they can sell a snake to a moron who wants to show-off for his friends.
Yes, live and let live indeed. I guess there are some people who actually care about the well being of snakes, and some that don't.....that's what the debate should really be about!
|
| |
|
RE: www.venomoidreptiles.org ????
|
Reply
|
|
by tj on March 8, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
typo, that's supposed to read putting money in someone's pocket.
|
| |
|
RE: www.venomoidreptiles.org ????
|
Reply
|
|
by petra on March 8, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
tj, webmasters of this site do care about snakes - look at this site isn't it obvious? However this debate should have ended after Karl's post. He has not once mentioned that he agrees with glands removal. All he is saying is that keeping venomoids is not illegal and if someone wants to keep them it's the indiviual's business and has nothing to do with him as long as it doesn't violate this site.
Besides this forum is intended to give advice and answer questions about venomous reptiles...
|
| |
|
Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to this topic.
Subscribe!
My Subscriptions
Subscriptions Help
Check our help page for help using
, or send questions, comments, or suggestions to the
Manager.
|
